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I've seen the future

Woody Campbell

Workshop Member
It's the Sony Nex-7. Go ahead, flame me.

If you own Leica glass this thing rocks. IQ is equivalent to the M9 but maybe a little more DR. Manual focus works just fine, once you've spent a couple of weeks with it and learn it. I'm slightly astigmatic so the Leica rangefinder spot is tough for me in poor light - I have fewer issues with the Sony.

The camera is light and of very high build quality. The Novoflex and Voigtlander adapters are excellent.

The Nex-7 has several stops more of high ISO performance.

It's very demanding of technique because with 24 megs of resolution the slightest camera movement or mis-focus show up.

You can't see beyond the edge of the frame, but on the other hand framing is accurate. And you can actually see what long lenses are seeing.

Once you master it focus may be more accurate than the M9 because you don't have to worry about mating the lens to the rangefinder (on the Nex-7 I found that the infinity focus on my 24mm lux was quite a bit off) or for that matter focus shift.

The negatives are well documented. Sony needs a firmware update to address the issues that MR identified in his informal review (he did a good job of identifying the needs of shooters using legacy manual focus glass). The viewfinder is dim on the beach or on a ski slope. Classic design wides need work in post to eliminate magenta casts. It would be nice if there were more Nex-7s - the body is marked "Made in Thailand" and the recent flooding has clearly disrupted the supply chain. I paid a premium for mine on eBay but it still costs a lot less than a Leica.

Of course Fuji has announced its own "mirrorless" interchangeable lens camera with a hybrid viewfinder.

This is good news and bad news for Leica. The good news is that the Nex-7 (and presumably the Fuji) is a universal platform for manual focus lenses, including Leica lenses. The bad news is that it will be very hard for Leica to keep pace in terms of camera design with companies like Sony and Fuji who have the capacity to design and fabricate their own chips.

So I'm sleeping much better now as a Leica owner than I did a few years ago. Leica's futures as a lens manufacturer is assured as a result of very robust demand, and I'm assured of a way forward with my Leica lenses that doesn't rely Leica to develop a new M camera body.

Now if only Sony could shoehorn a 24 x 36 sensor into the Nex form factor . . .
 

dude163

Active member
It's very demanding of technique because with 24 megs of resolution the slightest camera movement or mis-focus show up.

You can't see beyond the edge of the frame, but on the other hand framing is accurate. .

This is why I prefer the rangefinder vs DSLR/micro 4/3rds, I really like using manual glass and I find with the M8 I can focus way better than I can using my Pentax KX or my friends 4/3 camera .

I hope the future isnt just cameras like the NEX Sonys etc, I think there is room for all types/brands if they have a market to serve
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Now if only Sony could shoehorn a 24 x 36 sensor into the Nex form factor . . .

Even if it is larger, I would still want one. Live view- that is the key for me.

I am looking for a couple of my tilt lenses at the moment. As soon as I locate them, I will try them on the NEX-7.

Can't do that with a mechanical RF cam.

On the high pixel density and hence being more technically demanding-
while using high enough shutter speed to take care of that, I can do 10 frames/s without much problem. The shot gun shutter might startle anyone closeby though.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Woody,
you ask for flaming....here I go

The main points for the Nex I see:
-lower price than M9
-if one likes to use zooms or needs long reach
-video and good still in one camera
-swivel LCD for different perspectives

Other than that
-the M9 is faster and more accurate to focus without being disturbed by white/yellow/red lines around edges (thats why I mostly use Nex lenses on the Nex even though I have that adapter and many M-lenses)
-the M9 shows less noise than the Nex in the ISO range between base ISO and 1000 ISO wich is the most important range for me
-an OVF doesnt only work better in contrasty/bright light, it also allows to see the real color and allows a much better "connection" to the subject. You look at the real thing, not on a screen/display in a viewfinder
- M9 very simple intuitive userinterface
- very limited good wide angle solutions for the NEX so far

So for photography in the 18-90mm range and the ISO < 1000 range I really prefer the M9 over the Nex.

So yes, I also see a great future for the Nex, but I dont see less future for Leica M bodies.
I have been all over the Nex when I got it...new toy, great images....then you use it for a while and ask yourself: what does it really better for my photography than the M9...then I started to use the M9 again here and then...now I am at the point I use the M9 more often than the Nex.

So in the end I find the Nex7 a great camera, but I am not so sure if it makes sense (for me personally) to use both the M9 and a Nex and if I had to choose one and could afford it I would allways choose the M9.
 

seakayaker

Active member
Nice review Woody.

Hopefully you will still continue to post your wonderful photographs that you make with your Leica gear!

This review may be better suited over in the Sony thread instead of on the Leica M, X, and R (JMHO).
 

doug

Well-known member
The NEX-7 looks like a good body for my backup kit; it will allow me to use any lens of every brand in my toy box. My immediate need is with a Nikon adapter so I can use my pre-IF 300mm f/4.5 ED while the 280 APO is in New Jersey for service. If the sensor were full-frame or even only as big as the DMR's sensor there wouldn't be a moment's hesitation: I'd grab it.
 

jonoslack

Active member
So in the end I find the Nex7 a great camera, but I am not so sure if it makes sense (for me personally) to use both the M9 and a Nex and if I had to choose one and could afford it I would allways choose the M9.
+1, Definitely, so much so that my NEX7 sits beside me right now, on it's way to a new owner.

If I didn't have an M9 it'd be different, but if I want zooms and AF then there are better cameras (A77), and if I'm using my Leica glass then I prefer the Leica images, notwithstanding higher DR and better high ISO with the NEX7.
 

Woody Campbell

Workshop Member
Just wondering how you approach [magenta casts with classic wides]?
I'm a C1 user as a result of owning some MF gear, so I use the C1 LCC corrections. To my eyes the corrected images have a slight overall magenta caste that is easily fixed by desaturating magenta a bit. The issue of course is that the edges of the image where the correction is applied are less robust in terms of further corrections in PS or LR.

So the 16mm wide end of the WATE is actually much better than the 15mm Voigtlander, but with a less appealing form factor and astronomically greater cost.

Here's a before and after LCC. I've left the foreground in here, when I shot this I had intended to crop it to a roughly square format and touch up the perspective.




 

Godfrey

Well-known member
An all electronic imaging TTL camera has been the future in my mind since 2002. the NEX 7 is just another step on the way there. but it doesn't replace a rangefinder, an SLR, or any other type of camera. it simply offers a different set of advantages and disadvantages.

Why is it that every time some rangefinder-styled camera is released, it has to mean "trouble for Leica"? Leica must be doing something incredibly right for everyone who doesn't own one, who is offended by the price tag, etc, to constantly see any other camera that remotely resembles the Leica M to be a challenge to its survival. If it were a piece of junk no one would care. There have been plenty of other excellent cameras which make photographs of a quality comparable to a Leica for decades. They're not the same thing either.

The Leica M9 is unique ... it's the only 35mm format, optical rangefinder camera available that is optimized for the line of rangefinder lenses made since the 1930s. It is selling very very well indeed despite the very high price. It is not a mass-market product, so its sales success isn't something that challenges Sony, Panasonic, Nikon, Canon, et al.

Of course, Leica will announce their own TTL electronic imaging camera this coming Fall. And their new S2 system has been well received, despite its even more egregious price. So they're not standing still in the past either.

Enjoy your NEX 7. It's another good camera on the way to the future. But to pose some huge ballyhoo about how Leica is in in trouble because it exists ... that makes no sense at all.
 

Woody Campbell

Workshop Member
Woody: I got one of these babies and it corrects my M8 viewfinder for my astigmatism:
works well, as I always had problems with those vertical lines

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/leica-m-x-r/32316-walter-rx-eyepiece-review.html#post384251
Thanks for the link. I've got an eye exam coming up and I'll order one once my prescription is updated. You're one of the few lucky guys in the world who has a major machine shop available to fix the "drops off of the camera" issue. How have you made out with it?
 

KeithL

Well-known member
I'm a C1 user as a result of owning some MF gear, so I use the C1 LCC corrections. To my eyes the corrected images have a slight overall magenta caste that is easily fixed by desaturating magenta a bit. The issue of course is that the edges of the image where the correction is applied are less robust in terms of further corrections in PS or LR.
..
Woody, many thanks.

For the moment I'm hanging on in the hope the M10 - or Leica's new system - delivers focus confirmation and accurate framing.
 
Thank you Woody for sharing your experience.
My main concern, based on tests done by others, about the use of the Nex 7 with M wide angles, is not about the color cast, which is not so difficult to deal with, but with the loss of resolution/sharpness at the edges, at least in comparison with M9 and also with Ricoh GXR.
This potential issue is well addressed also in a recent paper by H.H. Nasse of Zeiss.
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Thank you Woody for sharing your experience.
My main concern, based on tests done by others, about the use of the Nex 7 with M wide angles, is not about the color cast, which is not so difficult to deal with, but with the loss of resolution/sharpness at the edges, at least in comparison with M9 and also with Ricoh GXR.
This potential issue is well addressed also in a recent paper by H.H. Nasse of Zeiss.

Could you please give the url of that paper?

Thanks, K-H.
 

KeithL

Well-known member
Thank you Woody for sharing your experience.
My main concern, based on tests done by others, about the use of the Nex 7 with M wide angles, is not about the color cast, which is not so difficult to deal with, but with the loss of resolution/sharpness at the edges, at least in comparison with M9 and also with Ricoh GXR.
This potential issue is well addressed also in a recent paper by H.H. Nasse of Zeiss.
I would imagine this is also likely to be a problem with the Fuji X-Pro1?
 

fotografz

Well-known member
It's the Sony Nex-7. Go ahead, flame me.

If you own Leica glass this thing rocks. IQ is equivalent to the M9 but maybe a little more DR. Manual focus works just fine, once you've spent a couple of weeks with it and learn it. I'm slightly astigmatic so the Leica rangefinder spot is tough for me in poor light - I have fewer issues with the Sony.

The camera is light and of very high build quality. The Novoflex and Voigtlander adapters are excellent.

The Nex-7 has several stops more of high ISO performance.

It's very demanding of technique because with 24 megs of resolution the slightest camera movement or mis-focus show up.

You can't see beyond the edge of the frame, but on the other hand framing is accurate. And you can actually see what long lenses are seeing.

Once you master it focus may be more accurate than the M9 because you don't have to worry about mating the lens to the rangefinder (on the Nex-7 I found that the infinity focus on my 24mm lux was quite a bit off) or for that matter focus shift.

The negatives are well documented. Sony needs a firmware update to address the issues that MR identified in his informal review (he did a good job of identifying the needs of shooters using legacy manual focus glass). The viewfinder is dim on the beach or on a ski slope. Classic design wides need work in post to eliminate magenta casts. It would be nice if there were more Nex-7s - the body is marked "Made in Thailand" and the recent flooding has clearly disrupted the supply chain. I paid a premium for mine on eBay but it still costs a lot less than a Leica.

Of course Fuji has announced its own "mirrorless" interchangeable lens camera with a hybrid viewfinder.

This is good news and bad news for Leica. The good news is that the Nex-7 (and presumably the Fuji) is a universal platform for manual focus lenses, including Leica lenses. The bad news is that it will be very hard for Leica to keep pace in terms of camera design with companies like Sony and Fuji who have the capacity to design and fabricate their own chips.

So I'm sleeping much better now as a Leica owner than I did a few years ago. Leica's futures as a lens manufacturer is assured as a result of very robust demand, and I'm assured of a way forward with my Leica lenses that doesn't rely Leica to develop a new M camera body.

Now if only Sony could shoehorn a 24 x 36 sensor into the Nex form factor . . .
Good review Woody, glad the NEX-7 pleases you ... after all, that's all that really counts.

Personally, my greatest hope is that Leica doesn't even try to keep pace with all the "Pocket Rocket" technology. A road less traveled has always been their charm, and they've never done very well when trying to please too many people ... it just leads to the inevitable direct comparison to other products that do please the majority, and cost a lot less.

They still have a unique product ... to toss out that uniqueness, without something equally unique that does the same thing, would be a grievous error.

IMO, the NEX-5, 5n, or 7, or any other such product to date is not the same as a rangefinder, especially a rangefinder of this caliber. They are simply alternative ways of seeing, that just happen to use M lenses if you wish.

BTW, one of your positives "seeing what the lens sees", is why I personally will never see these cameras as replacing a true rangefinder, and the rangefinder way of seeing the world around you.

Be well,

-Marc
 
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