GH2 impressions

[DHart]

For example, I photographed this target, camera on A priority, legacy lens.

Looking at the LR3 histogram on the right, the result should be with middle grey in middle of histogram and black and white levels about equally in from their respective sides. Obviously, this is a well used card which has gotten dirty, so one might expect a very slight shift to the left as a result, but not this much... it takes about +1 EV adjustment in LR3 to bring the image where it should be (see bottom image.)

I have found a similar result when photographing common subjects/scenes with the legacy lenses in "A" mode.



Here's a resulting image, with what I consider to be proper and accurate tonal representation - after the +1 EV compensation:



Understandably, a subject with a significant area of brighter than 50% grey tones would tend to cause the in camera meter to under expose somewhat, but this subject and the test card itself shouldn't be causing the meter to under expose by 1 stop.

I may just be that this meter or this sensor are a little more "off" standard than a typical camera and I need to understand where and when it causes this and compensate for it. I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced this.

[Terry]

There has been a lot written about the film modes on the GH2. Even if you are shooting raw the film modes are not independent and can affect your exposures. I know this won't make sense...but reading this thread is pretty important to understand even if you are just shooting RAW.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=37554579

[biglouis]

Of course, the one thing I like about using a camera with an EVF versus an optical viewfiend is being able to see the effect of adding exposure compensation...

[Rich M]

Originally Posted by DHart

I have found that when using in-camera metering, with legacy lenses, shooting aperture priority, that I typically need to increase exposure about +1 EV when editing the images in LR3.

Has anyone else experienced this or does it seem that I have a defective camera?

I do need to do more varied and exhaustive testing (also with native lenses) to try to figure out if this is only with legacy lense.

I have seen the same thing, so very much doubt you have a defective camera.

It is an interesting phenomena and I am sorry I don't have a detailed analysis Like yours to add. If the image is appealing, the LR EV adjustment works (but shadows still seem blocky due to the limitations of the sensor??). However, it is situational......it differs from lens to lens (the worst are some of my RF lenses....the best are my CZ's). The issue is also exacerbated by brightly lit/heavily shaded situations versus scenes with less contrast.

I just seem to pick the lens to fit the scene. I have never seen this happen with any of the modern AF lenses.

R

[Terry]

Originally Posted by Rich M

I have seen the same thing, so very much doubt you have a defective camera.

It is an interesting phenomena and I am sorry I don't have a detailed analysis Like yours to add. If the image is appealing, the LR EV adjustment works (but shadows still seem blocky due to the limitations of the sensor??). However, it is situational......it differs from lens to lens (the worst are some of my RF lenses....the best are my CZ's). The issue is also exacerbated by brightly lit/heavily shaded situations versus scenes with less contrast.

I just seem to pick the lens to fit the scene. I have never seen this happen with any of the modern AF lenses.

R

Again, even if these are in RAW if you have a film mode chosen it can impact exposure.

[DHart]

Terry... wow! Thank you for that link. I had no idea that film mode settings were influencing RAW captures like they do and that RAW files were being manipulated as much as they are "under the hood".

My GH2 has been set to Smooth mode, as I felt that was perhaps best for the video I was doing. Now I see it is also effecting my RAW stills when shooting in "A" priority. It seems that shooting in "M" prevents a Film Mode setting from influencing the RAW... is that right?

Beyond that, however, I agree with Amy that the GH2 RAWs at IOS 160 are noiser than one might expect and, under certain circumstances (e.g., 1 stop under-exposure with legacy lenses) there seems to be a bit of a texture of some sort (can't remember what Amy called that texture shape) added to the image. At least under certain circumstances, in camera metering tends to under expose by as much as 1 stop, with results that are not desireable.

I will continue to test settings and lens combinations and such to try to sort this out better.

High-tech photography gear is bringing a lot more technical complexity to the job of creating quality images.

[DHart]

Originally Posted by Rich M

I have seen the same thing, so very much doubt you have a defective camera.

R

Rich... thanks for mentioning that. It is a bit of an odd phenomenon, but at least with awareness of it, one can do an EV shift in camera to achieve a well exposed, clean RAW.

[Jonas]

On the G1 and the GH1 cameras there is an option to set contrast, sharpening, saturation and so on within each film mode. On the G1 it has been showed that the noise setting affects the raw files. It is hardly noticeable in general use. On the GH1 the noise setting has a bigger impact.
All this is for stills. I don't know how it works when it comes to the GH1 and movies, and for the GH2 I have no idea about anything. Just mentioning...

[biglouis]

iso3200 f1.7

[DHart]

Cool shot, Louis! What a look he's got! Great. Loving your GH2 aren't you!

[ptomsu]

Louis,

this is a wonderful photo! The sensor of the GH2 is rocking. I wish that the E5 had got that sensor - sigh ....

[biglouis]

ptomsu and Don, thanks for the comments. I was completely surprised by how well the sensor coped with 3200 and also how well the lens behaved. I did relieve some of the luminance noise in LR3 but I was expecting complete mush and instead I got a reasonably usable capture.

LouisB

[DHart]

Louis, I'm finding very nice performance at high ISOs as well with the GH2... it's a really impressive camera. I was trying some Film Modes for movies and found they were also influencing my RAWs (I only shoot in RAW). Apparently in P, A, and S priority, the Mode setting does have some influence on RAWs (coding telling the RAW converter to make some changes "under the hood"). My understanding (still quite limited) is that in M priority, the coding from a Film Mode doesn't get passed along to the RAW converter... anyway, I changed my Film Mode to Standard and have been shooting M and I'm very happy with the RAWs now. Still not a lot of use with the camera yet as I work with other cameras as well and I've been a bit distracted playing with legacy primes - AND rediscovering my GF1.

There is a lot to learn about how this camera works... it's an amazing image making machine, that's for sure. Must admit that although I've got my techie/nerdularialley oriented tendencies, I'm still rooted in "old school". I've been so "manual everything" oriented for so long that I get bogged down in some of the custom programming features that may apply in this case and that case but not the other case, and all of that - add in the video options and WOW... the engineering/programming behind a camera like this just boggles my mind. Give me manual settings and aperture priority (and once in a long while, shutter priority) and a nice, plain RAW file and I can very happily work with that.

[slau]

I am not sure if this requirement of the +1 EV adjustment is unique to the GH2. Aperture mode is my preferred exposure mode for since I remember using cameras with 'auto' setting. My Canon 1DsMk3 seems to routinely require the same +1 EV to get the 'proper' exposure I like. My 1DMk3 requires +1/2 EV regularly.

To clarify: I like to have my exposure setting to get an image with a histogram as much to the right as possible, without blowing out the highlight. Both my G1, GH1 & GH2 seem to require at least the same amount of plus EV adjustment, if not more, to get the 'proper' exposure I like. I did notice that the metering of G1/GH1/GH2 (central average is my preferred setting) tend to be more 'conservative' for the highlight, which require more aggressive plus adjustment for me than my Canon 1D/1Ds gears.

I am not sure that 'the film mode affects the Raw file' statement is exactly correct. I would rather say that the film mode does have some effect on the metering, or how one mode is more emphasis on the highlight exposure while the other mode have more emphasis on the shadow exposure. This is just my own observation and have no scientific experiment to support it. I shoot only in raw and also a Lightroom 3/Photoshop CS5 user.

One thing we all seem to agree is: the GH2 is definitely an improved camera over the GH1. I still have to really learn the in-and-out of the GH2. But, this may have to wait until I have a chance to use the GH2 during a trip of one or two weeks, shooting side-by-side with my Canon gears. So far, I am pretty happy with the improvement of the AF performance of the GH2, which makes using the new 100-300 lens much more enjoyable.

[biglouis]

Don and Stephen, interesting comments. I am still amazed, incidentally, I look through the viewfinder. I have never seen an EVF which is so like an OVF. Quite astonishing in such a relatively affordable camera.

LouisB

[Jonas]

Originally Posted by DHart

Louis, I'm finding very nice performance at high ISOs as well with the GH2... it's a really impressive camera. I was trying some Film Modes for movies and found they were also influencing my RAWs (I only shoot in RAW). Apparently in P, A, and S priority, the Mode setting does have some influence on RAWs (coding telling the RAW converter to make some changes "under the hood"). My understanding (still quite limited) is that in M priority, the coding from a Film Mode doesn't get passed along to the RAW converter... anyway, I changed my Film Mode to Standard and have been shooting M and I'm very happy with the RAWs now. Still not a lot of use with the camera yet as I work with other cameras as well and I've been a bit distracted playing with legacy primes - AND rediscovering my GF1. (...)

We know since earlier that the G1 does something wit the raw files depending on the noise reduction settings in the film mode. That was hard to see with the eye but was there. With the GH1 it was easy to see.

The above was independent from the raw converter settings, it could be tried and confirmed by using a raw converter not reading the processing instructions from the raw file's EXIF values (plain dcraw for example). So, the raw files were different.

What you describe is a raw converter reading the EXIF values and trying to mimic the in-camera settings, no? That is not the same as the raw files is depending on the camera setting.

I haven't followed the GH2 discussions very close. Are there reports on the raw files really getting manipulated differently depending on th ecamera settings?

/Jonas

[DHart]

Just a quick snap... I had just received a new legacy lens (Canon FDn 50/1.4) and was running around the house snapping away. My bud, Harley, was snoozing at the top of the stairs, I was about 8' down the stairway from him looking up, and I asked him if he wanted to go for a ride... then he gave me this look, like, where to, dad?

GH2 / ISO 2500 / Canon FDn 50/1.4 / shot at f/1.4

[DHart]

Originally Posted by Jonas

We know since earlier that the G1 does something wit the raw files depending on the noise reduction settings in the film mode. That was hard to see with the eye but was there. With the GH1 it was easy to see.

The above was independent from the raw converter settings, it could be tried and confirmed by using a raw converter not reading the processing instructions from the raw file's EXIF values (plain dcraw for example). So, the raw files were different.

What you describe is a raw converter reading the EXIF values and trying to mimic the in-camera settings, no? That is not the same as the raw files is depending on the camera setting.

I haven't followed the GH2 discussions very close. Are there reports on the raw files really getting manipulated differently depending on th ecamera settings?

/Jonas

Jonas... see Terry's post #252 above. You must have missed that part of this thread.

I haven't done any controlled, definitive testing on this. I wasn't super happy with some of my images that didn't receive +1 EV compensation. Not necessarily a problem with the camera, though. That was with the camera in Smooth mode, which I set for movies, not thinking it might have any effect on my still RAWs. After that, what I did do is change my film mode back to Standard and have been shooting mostly M. Problem for me is that my use of the camera has been with a wide variety of settings, modes, native and legacy glass, and different metering modes and such, that my results can't really count as scientifically controlled tests.

My general impression is that the GH2 sensor definitely likes to be exposed as close to clipping white point as possible, but without clipping. This often means using a bit of +1/3 to +1 EV exp comp. I don't find the GH2 sensor has as much "salvageable" dynamic range as the sensor in my 5DMkII, but of course comparing a m4/3 sensor to the 5DMkII FF sensor, that's probably to be expected.

I need more time and use with the camera to learn more about it. So far, though, I think it's the best m4/3 camera there is, for a variety of reasons. I love it. And I still love the GF1 very much too, for what it is and does.

The GH2 and legacy lenses have re-invigorated my passion for image making. After many years as a working pro, sometimes I need some new photo tools to refresh and inspire the passion. We're fortunate to have such wonderful cameras and so MANY cool lenses to play with. This is super fun.

[biglouis]

Don, great capture! I'm amazed at the quality for iso2500. That is definitely a combination which will yield great results.

LouisB

[biglouis]

GH-2 100-300 iso1600 f5.6

This is not the greatest picture but I am amazed that I was able to capture detail at iso1600, whereas my GF-1 would have been total mush. The sensor in the GH-2 is definitely a step up.

[Leica 77]

Originally Posted by DHart

Just a quick snap... I had just received a new legacy lens (Canon FDn 50/1.4) and was running around the house snapping away. My bud, Harley, was snoozing at the top of the stairs, I was about 8' down the stairway from him looking up, and I asked him if he wanted to go for a ride... then he gave me this look, like, where to, dad?

GH2 / ISO 2500 / Canon FDn 50/1.4 / shot at f/1.4

Hi Don,

This is a superb portrait of your bud Harley!

[Jonas]

Originally Posted by DHart

Jonas... see Terry's post #252 above. You must have missed that part of this thread.
(...)

Hi Don,

No I didn't miss Terry's post. I also didn't miss Amy's threads over at DPR. I may have missed some information in them but glancing at them once again now didn't change my impression; I never saw anything in them making me believe the raw files themselves were manipulated by the film mode settings. Amy only used ACR and the developed images will, of course, look different when the camera settings are changed.

I still guess they (the raw data streams) are somewhat altered but I would like to know for sure.

regards,

Jonas

[DHart]

Jonas... no, I'm not saying that the film modes change the RAWs, though I don't really know for sure. Perhaps the side car info to the RAW instructs the converter to apply some changes to the RAW during conversion, which some converters may implement and others not. On this I don't know for sure either.

I do feel that my selection of Smooth mode for video work seemed to have created a change in the way my RAWs looked in LR3. But again, I really don't know enough to say this for sure as I haven't conducted any controlled tests on this. I must defer to others who have studied this more closely than I have.

[DHart]

Leica 77, hey my friend, thanks for appreciating the image!

Louis, and all, here's another example of the GH2 at ISO 2500.

The clean look of the image at that ISO is very striking indeed, but what astounds me even more is the IS capability of this lens. I can shoot this camera with the 14-140mm lens at full extension of 140mm (280 equiv.) hand held, and at 1/15th second still get super crisp sharpness! The lens has shown this capability to me on a number of occasions and I'm mind boggled by that. I think the GH2 and 14-140 combination is truly a magical combination.

Here are two versions of the same RAW capture, LR3 conversion, GH2, ISO 2500, hand held, moderately dim interior shot with strong backlight from windows behind the subject (no windows behind me), 14-140 lens @ 140mm, aperture wide open @ f/5.8, shutter 1/15th sec. First image with slight cropping, no noise detergent, second image slight noise detergent (LR3).





I'm VERY impressed with this camera and this lens. (And it looks like I need to actuate my sensor cleaning function! I've been doing a lot of lens swaps.)

[DHart]

One more fun shot from today with the GH2, ISO 800, 20/1.7 lens @ f/1.7



These next three with the Canon FDn 50mm f/1.4 lens @ f/2

[biglouis]

Don

Some fantastic captures using both the 14-140 and the 20/1.7.

Well done!

LouisB

[Tonygamble]

Mine arrived yesterday. I love it!

First question. How have you experienced users re-mapped your Function Keys?

The 'out of the box' suggestions are (IMHO) inappropriate for RAW users.

Especially that F1 that moves you into iA - does anyone use that?

Tony

[DHart]

Thank you, Big Louis! I appreciate your comments very much.

[biglouis]

Originally Posted by Tonygamble

Mine arrived yesterday. I love it!

First question. How have you experienced users re-mapped your Function Keys?

The 'out of the box' suggestions are (IMHO) inappropriate for RAW users.

Especially that F1 that moves you into iA - does anyone use that?

Tony

Yes, I use the one on top of the body for setting the metering and at least one other for turning on and off the grid lines on the display. Can't remember what I did with the third.

There is no correct answer here (of course). I really enjoy have a grid superimposed on my viewfinder and I am sure it has greatly improved my composition.

LouisB

[Tonygamble]

Thanks Louis,

I've opted for:-

1. Grid

2. Flash compensation. (I'm a fill fan)

3. Metering options.

iA is on the dial - so why give it a button?

Tony

[mark1000]

My pre sets are

F1 flash adjustment

F2 metering

F3 ETC on/off

Mark.