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GH2 impressions

biglouis

Well-known member
Is the GH2 body alone for sale anywhere; all the ones I have seen include zooms. TIA, kl
Actually, Tesselator's response made me smile. I'm not hanging on to my GF-1 having acquired the GH-2 and part of my financial calculations include taking the 14-42 off the GH-2 and selling it with the GF-1 as a 'kit'.

LouisB
 

MRfanny

New member
panasonic.com in the US sells body only. It is $899 don't know if they will ship to AU but check and see if Panasonic AU has an online store.
Pana AU is a joke in terms of pricing though it doesn't seem as bad this time round. They haven't even bothered listing it on their lumix site. $1500 at teds with lens, i think they are over valuing the lens combo =) guess its better than the 3k that they were asking for when the gh1 came out.

Fingers crossed there is a patch soon after firmware release to switch from nstc to pal so i can pick one up from the US.
 

lcubed

New member
The gh2 is definitely available body only thru panasonic direct. Or you could look in the commercial sales forum here and contact monza
 

Sapphie

Member
Peter

How did you find the colours compare between the GH2 and the K5? I am having a hard time - I love the K5 but my lenses are definately front and back focusing. A replacement body may well fix it but my 'head' says get a GH2 instead. Why? I will then have

GH2 + 14-140mm (most of the cost is the lens in fact, so a 'cheap' new body)
G1
Panny 14-45mm
Panny 20mm
Olympus 9-18mm
+
Pentax 28mm manual focus
Pentax 43mm Ltd

that could all be used. If I went for the K5, many of those lenses may just gather dust.

It's a 'no brainer' really isn't it?

I also gather that manual focus assist is easier to activate in the GH2 than the G1, by just turning a thumbwheel?

But that K5 is so alluring ... still in a quandary. One day I have *decided* on a replacement K5, the next, the logical answer of GH2 pulls me.

I mostly take lowish ISO stills. No doubt that the high ISO of the K5 is stunning but how often will I really use it?

Lee
 

Tesselator

New member
That's good news about the GH2 body only option. Was the GH1 also available in body only in your respective countries? Here it wasn't and I didn't dig too deep but I think it wasn't in the US or UK either. Oh well, I guess that's what I get for assuming Panasonic incapable of learning. I hope they also learned the more important (to me) lesson of including language options in the models destined/marketed for Asian. Here the GH1 (and all G models I think) came in Japanese and you could switch it if you liked to, yeah, Japanese. :( I think the Chinese models were the same deal.


Fingers crossed there is a patch soon after firmware release to switch from nstc to pal so i can pick one up from the US.
If you mean a user created patch like we saw on the GH1 I think we're out of luck. The bulk of the GH1s shipped with the firmware unprotected and un-encrypted. After the GH13 hack became popular they (reportedly) locked things down and put heavy encryption on it. Reportedly this is true of the GH2 as well. So no user patches unless some kind soul at Panasonic leaks a key or unless someone's computer just chances on the right key - which is like, a trillion to 1 chance or something. :(
 
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emr

Member
I just couldn't resist the temptation any more and bought today one with the 14-140mm zoom. I know this lacks in some ways compared to the K-5 I also had in mind, but I think this will be a powerful combo for traveling and video. It was a busy day and I'm only beginning to learn the ins and outs. So far it feels a pretty complicated system and I'm afraid I need to really read the manual which I almost never do properly. It feels like there are two or three different cameras that were put together. ;) Like the different video settings. You can have the camera in some still mode like aperture priority and shoot video with the red dotted button. Then you can switch to "manual video" and shoot using the shutter release - what, 4, 5 or 6 different video formats that need to be chosen from different parts of the menu???

But when I manage to learn the ropes, I have high expectations for this cam.
 

MRfanny

New member
If you mean a user created patch like we saw on the GH1 I think we're out of luck. The bulk of the GH1s shipped with the firmware unprotected and un-encrypted. After the GH13 hack became popular they (reportedly) locked things down and put heavy encryption on it. Reportedly this is true of the GH2 as well. So no user patches unless some kind soul at Panasonic leaks a key or unless someone's computer just chances on the right key - which is like, a trillion to 1 chance or something. :(
The main reason why the newer gh1's couldn't be hacked was because they stopped releasing firmware (v1.34) for it to be reversed. Just need some disgruntled employee in repairs to leak it and its game on...ha So unless they plan to never release firmware updates for the gh2, which is highly unlikely, there is still hope =)
 

Tesselator

New member
Mmm, OK, but the newer GH1s and I assume the GH2s, use a completely different firmware technique which includes high-bit decryption. The firmware files themselves are high-bit encrypted. Even if we have access to the firmware files you're talking about it will be next to impossible to hack. I guess if we had a few hundred super-computers we could probably get into the file in only a few months - again unless we just lucked out or something.

If there is a v1.34 for the older GH1 cameras however then what you say is correct.
 

brianb032

New member
Read the entire thread. Tesselator, just curious, when you state that the GH2 is marginally better than the GH1 in video quality, does that pertain to unhacked GH1's? Is the separation as wide and noticeable to the average Joe as others state or is that mainly hot air?
 

Tesselator

New member
When the two cameras are in their factory states respectively the GH2's video is better. Yes the difference is noticeable but you have to know what you're looking for.

When the GH1 is properly hacked then the GH1's video is better than the GH2's. And again yes, the differences are noticeable but you have to know what to look for - or you have to be able to identify what you're looking at. The quality increase is almost a perfect leapfrog: GH1 --> GH2 --> GH1+mod with close to equal differences linearly. That's with "safe" settings and if you wish to purchase a speedy memory card and push the envelope with the PTool's settings for the custom firmware then the GH1+mod gets even better.

If someone is considering the GH cameras just for video quality and they don't mind patching the firmware then the GH1 is the best one still - by far actually.

However, for the casual home movie buff who just wants to film their kid's kindergarden play, a high school graduation, or record clips from their vacation it doesn't really matter. If you're not professionally minded about video and don't edit with broadcast, duplication mastering, you will likely not be able to tell the difference between the GH1, the GH2, and the patched GH1 - if if you can, it just won't matter to you. The differences to an untrained eye are very slight.

But also to note that if a professional wishes the best quality and needs/wants to use a DSLR then both the top Nikon and Canon DSLRs produce better quality footage than any of the Panasonic M4/3 products - including the GH1, GH2, GH1+mod and the new AG-AF100 dedicated video camera.

The deal here is the price and the lenses. While the Nikon and the Canon both produce better video IQ they also cost (now) 5 or 6 times the price and cannot accept nearly as many alt lenses as can be fitted to the M4/3 mount.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Peter

How did you find the colours compare between the GH2 and the K5? I am having a hard time - I love the K5 but my lenses are definately front and back focusing. A replacement body may well fix it but my 'head' says get a GH2 instead. Why? I will then have

GH2 + 14-140mm (most of the cost is the lens in fact, so a 'cheap' new body)
G1
Panny 14-45mm
Panny 20mm
Olympus 9-18mm
+
Pentax 28mm manual focus
Pentax 43mm Ltd

that could all be used. If I went for the K5, many of those lenses may just gather dust.

It's a 'no brainer' really isn't it?

I also gather that manual focus assist is easier to activate in the GH2 than the G1, by just turning a thumbwheel?

But that K5 is so alluring ... still in a quandary. One day I have *decided* on a replacement K5, the next, the logical answer of GH2 pulls me.

I mostly take lowish ISO stills. No doubt that the high ISO of the K5 is stunning but how often will I really use it?

Lee
Lee,

hard decision to be made ;)

I mainly had the AF issues with the K5, main reason why I sold it was because these issues were not even predictible and not only in happening in low light.

I loved the colors of the K5 very much though, cannot say that the GH2 is better here, but at least the 2 cameras are on par for me WRT colors.

Lenses - definitely the M43 system allows for even smaller lenses at same quality level compared to APSC size. I have shot now some 600 images with my kit lens 14-140 and I was NOT disappointed a single time. If something was out of focus, then it was my fault, if I had some unsharp results because of movement it was my fault. This lens is a marvel. Could absolutely not say that about the Pentax kit lens.

And the whole kit is very small, so it stayed all the tome with me in my backpack (business backpack) during my CHina trip. So it was always available. Which would have NEVER been the case with the K5 and even less the case when a better quality Pentax zoom like the 16-55 added to it. Just simply quality issue.

Low light performance of the K5 is definitely better, I would say noticeable above ISO 3200, but then only with good glass (limited) and if you have a working AF combo, otherwise unsharp results just kill the better ISO quality. I had never ever issues with the GH2 AF in low light (I am not even using AF assist light) and the AF simply tells you because of not focusing anywhere when it is too dark, so the you just overrule it by MF and with some practice you can nail focus pretty perfect.

And this EVF is a DREAM, not comparable with the smallish and still dark OVF of the K5. Mentally you have to be ready for an EVF, but this one is a perfect one and so it is no big thing to get friends with it.

I would give the GH2 a try - I did not regret!
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
When the two cameras are in their factory states respectively the GH2's video is better. Yes the difference is noticeable but you have to know what you're looking for.

When the GH1 is properly hacked then the GH1's video is better than the GH2's. And again yes, the differences are noticeable but you have to know what to look for - or you have to be able to identify what you're looking at. The quality increase is almost a perfect leapfrog: GH1 --> GH2 --> GH1+mod with close to equal differences linearly. That's with "safe" settings and if you wish to purchase a speedy memory card and push the envelope with the PTool's settings for the custom firmware then the GH1+mod gets even better.

If someone is considering the GH cameras just for video quality and they don't mind patching the firmware then the GH1 is the best one still - by far actually.

However, for the casual home movie buff who just wants to film their kid's kindergarden play, a high school graduation, or record clips from their vacation it doesn't really matter. If you're not professionally minded about video and don't edit with broadcast, duplication mastering, you will likely not be able to tell the difference between the GH1, the GH2, and the patched GH1 - if if you can, it just won't matter to you. The differences to an untrained eye are very slight.

But also to note that if a professional wishes the best quality and needs/wants to use a DSLR then both the top Nikon and Canon DSLRs produce better quality footage than any of the Panasonic M4/3 products - including the GH1, GH2, GH1+mod and the new AG-AF100 dedicated video camera.

The deal here is the price and the lenses. While the Nikon and the Canon both produce better video IQ they also cost (now) 5 or 6 times the price and cannot accept nearly as many alt lenses as can be fitted to the M4/3 mount.
WRT better Video IQ from Nikon and Canon DSLRs I would be very careful. They do have better lenses - agreed - and if that helps produce better Video IQ then it may be, but in terms of sensor and processing the video out of the GH2 is pretty unbeatable. Not sure how good the Sony Video IQ is out of Alpha DSLRs though.
 

Tesselator

New member
WRT better Video IQ from Nikon and Canon DSLRs I would be very careful. They do have better lenses - agreed - and if that helps produce better Video IQ then it may be, but in terms of sensor and processing the video out of the GH2 is pretty unbeatable. Not sure how good the Sony Video IQ is out of Alpha DSLRs though.

Well the cameras with bigger sensors produce footage that is superior in almost every way! Astoundingly less noise. Dumbstoundingly more dynamic range. Better color, you name it. In every test the GH1/GH2 looses out. So why buy a GH1/2 if you're interested in video? Well there are ONLY two reasons! One is price! The now $200 GH1 puts "good enough" professional video in the hands of just about any indy film-maker. The second reason is the shallow depth of the M4/3 mount flange. This allows the placement of adapted professional video lenses at the same distance from the GH1/2's sensor as the original professional film cameras and the Lumix series lenses at nearly the same distance as those. This helps a lot in getting the footage to look and feel like such film cameras - and this very desirable. It allows us to actually use exactly the same lenses - again very desirable! The Canons and Nikons (etc.) cannon accept such lenses at all.

But again if we examine and compare the video footage itself, the GH series loses out in every respect - in a very dramatic and obvious way too! This isn't my opinion, this is measurable and demonstrable fact with literally thousands of hours online proving this beyond any doubts. If I had my wish the GH1/2 would be the best - as obviously I own the GH1. :)

Here is about 1.5 hours of just such footage: http://www.zacuto.com/shootout have a look and then let's discuss it if you'd like. The Zacuto Shootout is probably the best and most fair comparison available on-line. It's really worth watching!



PS: in your response you said the "Nikons and Canons" have better lenses... This is not really true as we have all the lenses - theirs and ours - and movie lenses! Professional videographers do not typically use or want to use autofocusing so we can discard that right off the bat. ;) So in this regard as I explained above the GH series cameras wins. It's one of the only two aspects that the GH series do win.
 
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Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I haven't had time to see the shootout yet, but it's logical that larger sensors have some advantages, at least as long as the photosites are larger. However, from a practical point of view, the GH1/2 offer a lot more than lower price and the possibility to mount more or less any lens.

To start with, they have a viewfinder. Although the Zacuto viewfinder and similar solutions work ok, they don't beat a proper viewfinder, and with the Panasonic, this comes in combination with an articulated LCD.

The camera body is much smaller and lighter, and you can easily fit 2 x GH2 within the weight and size of a 5DII. That comparison even holds for the price, and if really small is needed, it's easy to add a GF2. There is no GF2 in the full frame world.

Lenses are much smaller, particularly when it comes to telephoto lenses, but the same goes for WA lenses. I have on several occasions been shooting together with photographers using a D3s with Nikkor 14-24mm. The size difference is so enormous that it looks silly.

For people working in a studio or with a large crew, this isn't very important, but for small crews on the go, or one-man-shows like myself, it's of paramount importance. I can carry two GH bodies and 6 lenses in a small Kata Kata DR-467i backpack that also has space for 3-4 days of clothing, a fluid head and a small tripod on the outside.

I don't know how dramatic the quality difference is, but I do know that there are many places where I would never carry full frame gear, simply because it's to bulky and too heavy. In addition the difference in reaction you get between pointing a D3s with a 200mm lens at people compared to a GH1 with the OM 100mm is enormous. People simply act differently when a big camera and lens is pointed towards them, and that affects the real qualities of the video.

So, the best isn't always the best, and although we are discussing technical quality on this thread, it's important to remember that the technology has to work within a context. Horse for courses and so on.
 

Terry

New member
Well,
This summer will be interesting for me. I will be on Safari with a friend and we will be sharing the same vehicle. She will be shooting Canon 1DMIV and 5DII with 70-200, 100-400, and 800mm lenses and I will be shooting GH2's with 100-300 and 14-140. May look and see if I can find some other interesting glass and certainly she will have longer reach for birds but I am pretty comfortable that the kit I'm putting together will serve me well and be a whole lot easier to transport!
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Well,
This summer will be interesting for me. I will be on Safari with a friend and we will be sharing the same vehicle. She will be shooting Canon 1DMIV and 5DII with 70-200, 100-400, and 800mm lenses and I will be shooting GH2's with 100-300 and 14-140. May look and see if I can find some other interesting glass and certainly she will have longer reach for birds but I am pretty comfortable that the kit I'm putting together will serve me well and be a whole lot easier to transport!
That is a brave decision but I have to say I wonder who will get the most keepers. I assume you are not shooting commercially so there is no need for files that meet stock agency requirements. So, given that you'll be able to hold your camera at ready longer as it weights considerably less, I think you may have a distinct advantage... BTW, if you don't have the PL45/2.8...

LouisB
 
What do any of you think of the Panny Leica 14-150 on the GH2? (vs. the Panny 14-140?). Or how about the Oly "Super High Grade" lenses - those seem like the cream of the crop, although really expensive.
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
>Or how about the Oly "Super High Grade" lenses - those seem like the cream of the crop, although really expensive.

No IS on GH2. Would be for me a deal breaker on long focals.

Terry, just watch the GH2 buffer if you use bursts as it is not very large.
 
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