Fuji FinePix X100

[photoSmart42]

Now this looks interesting:

http://dpreview.com/news/1009/10091910fujifilmx100.asp

Wish it came with interchangeable lenses, but otherwise it's pretty much perfect (if the IQ is there). An M9 without the price tag perhaps?

[mathomas]

I agree. It's a very interesting release.

FYI: Also being discussed over here: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19614

[Cindy Flood]

I wish it had interchangeable lenses. The design is beautiful with the simple controls. They are getting closer to the camera that I want.

[peterb]

If you didn't the Leica X1 because you thought it was just a little shy of what it could of been you may have been given a second chance.

[Diane B]

Originally Posted by Cindy Flood

I wish it had interchangeable lenses. The design is beautiful with the simple controls. They are getting closer to the camera that I want.

That's exactly what I thought as I read it. I was really excited until I got to the fixed lens....

[Godfrey]

I disagree on the fixed vs interchangeable lens business. Frankly, DSLRs and Micro-FourThirds type cameras do that well enough to satisfy my need for it. When I need interchangeable lenses, I'm happy to carry one of them around.

In a camera of this type, a fast, wide-normal lens and excellent controls coupled with excellent responsiveness, image quality, and the right degree of compactness are all that matters to me.

I think Fuji is to be applauded for this design. If its responsiveness is up to expectations (I doubt there will be any real difficulties with controls, lens or image quality ...!), it will be a delight. :-)

[Maggie O]

Originally Posted by Diane B

That's exactly what I thought as I read it. I was really excited until I got to the fixed lens....

If you want an APS-ish interchangeable lens body, with a great optical VF, that camera has already been made:


Leica M8 and 1959 50mm f/1.4 Summilux January, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr

If the Fuji is even close to being as good as it looks, I will have one!

[Steen]

I'm with Cindy and Diane on this.
At first glance it looked very interesting.
But the lack of interchangeable lenses makes it of no interest for me.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Godfrey

I disagree on the fixed vs interchangeable lens business. Frankly, DSLRs and Micro-FourThirds type cameras do that well enough to satisfy my need for it. When I need interchangeable lenses, I'm happy to carry one of them around.

In a camera of this type, a fast, wide-normal lens and excellent controls coupled with excellent responsiveness, image quality, and the right degree of compactness are all that matters to me.

I think Fuji is to be applauded for this design. If its responsiveness is up to expectations (I doubt there will be any real difficulties with controls, lens or image quality ...!), it will be a delight. :-)

I agree with Godfrey on this, I'd bet nearly everyone that buys a X100 will own other cameras, they will have other interchangable cameras in their stable.

If you read about the "decisive moment" camera, this is very much what has been asked for. Only time will tell if the IQ and handling are there. I could easily take this kind of camera on holidays as my only camera.

[woodmancy]

I agree with Godfrey and Tim on this one.

This combined EVF and OVF has been nirvana for the rangefinder people amongst us for over a decade. Clip on EVFs add a lot of size and weight. I can do bokehgraphy with this camera, now that I am able to see the bokeh. And this functionality is packed into an efficient and beautiful body. I wonder how much it will cost

Keith

[Vivek]

Samsung NX10, SonyNEX5 (both with kit pancake lenses) cost around $650 ish.

Despite the fixed lens, add a ~$100 premium for the metal stuff and the simplicity.

US $800/- or less and I am sold.

[HiredArm]

I agree with Vivek. Price will determine the greater success of this. My largest issue with the X1 is the price v. the versatility. $2000 gets you a lot of cameras that are much more versatile. They may not be Leica's but I don't find the output of the X1 being any better than Micro 4/3 in reality from samples I've seen.

If this camera goes for over $1000 it will mostly likely be a commercial failure but for $600-850 I'm in personally.

[HiredArm]

I'm also with Cindy, Diane, and Steen on the fact that if this were a system camera I would be much more "sold" on it. I'm still searching for the "perfect" EVIL/ Compact Digital system. Micro 4/3 comes the closet overall but obviously there's room for improvement. NEX has potential with the size and sensor but the menu system doesn't work as well as dedicated dials. We also need a E-mount roadmap. The rumored Leica Full Frame EVIL would be nice hypothetically... M9 is great but not an EVIL. I'd feel weird carrying upwards of 15K in camera equipment with me too...

[mathomas]

Bit and pieces I'm seeing around the web (FWIW) seem to lean toward the mid-teens, say $1500+/-. Not cheap, but cheaper than the X1 (but without the Leica brand, of course).

[Vivek]

$1500/- would make the X1 attractive since the X1 comes with a LR bundle and the Leica stamp.

[mathomas]

If this camera hits the market in the mid-teens with all its features intact, good fast AF (with a good manual option), and with great IQ, I'd buy it over the X1, and I'm a total Leica fanboy.

(but I'm a long-time Aperture user, so the LR gimme with the X1 isn't worth much to me)

[Vivek]

Well, the price would certainly clarify who the potential buyers would be.

[Geoff]

Fixed lens might also mean no dust bunnies.

(well you could leave a removable lens on, but who does that in reality?)

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Vivek

$1500/- would make the X1 attractive since the X1 comes with a LR bundle and the Leica stamp.

Even if the X1 bundle comes with LR the Fuji still makes the X1 look way overpriced considering that Fuji viewfinder thats included in the price, AND great tech to boot. IF the Fuji has good or great fast accurate AF and a great lens the X1 won't even be in the race. The Leica stamp mean zero to me.

The fixed lens mean faster startup, no zzing zzing lenses in/out, just power up. I assume its a non-retracting lens?

[Show Performance]

I'm firmly in the fixed lens camp for this round at least. Doesn't bother me one bit, not when people are willing to shell out $2,000 for a fixed lens X1 that I am fairly confident the X100 will trounce (maybe 100x as good?

[Steen]

Here's a short but very precise analysis:

http://enticingthelight.com/2010/09/...from/#sizecomp

[Show Performance]

The good (great) news: Price will come in at $1,000

The bad news: We have to wait until March 1st

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/21/f...0-we-go-hands/

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by Show Performance

The good (great) news: Price will come in at $1,000

The bad news: We have to wait until March 1st

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/21/f...0-we-go-hands/

From that link:

We just stopped by the Fujifilm booth in order to grab some video time with this guy, and sadly, the model that they had on display lacked a sensor of any kind.

Fuji are marketing a concept.

(still way better than Olympsu plastic boxes)

[Steen]

Originally Posted by Show Performance

(...) The bad news: We have to wait until March 1st (...)

excellent, then there's still time to add a mount ...

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by Steen

excellent, then there's still time to add a mount ...

Once they figure out where to manufacture this thing...

[Show Performance]

Originally Posted by Vivek

From that link:





Fuji are marketing a concept.

(still way better than Olympsu plastic boxes)

Yeah, I love how the sample marketing images have a notation stating that they are *simulated.

Doesn't matter, the marketing wonks have done their job and generated a hellfire of interest on the www.

Given, what we can see, the body design and the hybrid OVF, I'm giving them enough credit to place my pre-order.

[jminor]

Here is a link to Fuji's web page for this camera.

http://www.finepix-x100.com/x100

[jminor]

I like what I see so far, and the March 11 release date is perfect as it gives me time to save for the purchase. Plus, I'm sure we will learn more and more about the final product as the release date approaches. There is a lot of whining about the fixed lens, but that is a liberating feature, and like most folks, this won't be our only camera. I will continue to use and enjoy my E-PL1 and it's assortment of lenses. And if this is like some have said the first of new breed of camera from Fuji, all the better. To paraphrase Neil Armstrong, One small step for Fuji, One giant leap for digital photography.

[jminor]

I have a couple questions regarding the sensor. Is there a real noticable difference in image quality between an APS-C and 4/3rds sensor? Are the Fuji sensors a different breed than sensors from Sony and Panasonic, as far as their real world performance goes?

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by jminor

I have a couple questions regarding the sensor. Is there a real noticable difference in image quality between an APS-C and 4/3rds sensor?

YES.

Originally Posted by jminor

Are the Fuji sensors a different breed than sensors from Sony and Panasonic, as far as their real world performance goes?

As to the X100, it is still vaporware. We can only go by Fuji's claims for now.

Fuji had different sensors in their DSLRs. Leica have also made lenses with awesome bokeh. Fuji are trying to sell something based on their past record.
How X100 performs, when it actually shows up, remains to be seen.

[Jerry_R]

Originally Posted by jminor

real noticable difference in image quality between an APS-C and 4/3rds sensor?

RE: 43 vs APS-C:
http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/43/sensor-size.html

[Steen]

Originally Posted by jminor

I have a couple questions regarding the sensor. Is there a real noticable difference in image quality between an APS-C and 4/3rds sensor? Are the Fuji sensors a different breed than sensors from Sony and Panasonic, as far as their real world performance goes?

Everything else being equal a larger sensor will give you higher Sensitivity, less Noise, wider Dynamic Range, and a more shallow Depth Of Field.

The problem is that "Everything else" is never equal, so we always have to compare the different systems and sensors in real use, or judge the actual results.

That said we can at least illustrate how small or big the size difference is between Four Thirds and APS-C (and also Full 24x36mm) sensors. See the below illustrations.

Of course the difference will be somewhat reduced if you tend to often crop the ends of the long dimension on the 3:2 aspect ratio to gain more of a 4:3 aspect ratio or so.

Personally I wouldn't upgrade for the sensor size difference alone.
But if I were to buy a new camera I would definitely go for the larger APS-C sensor over the smaller 4/3, everything else being equal

With regards to the Fuji sensors breed, Fuji has since 1999 developed their own proprietary Super CCD sensors with a unique layout using octagonal, rather than rectangular, pixels.
But be aware that according to the dpreview link Fujifilm is this time going to put a CMOS sensor in the X100 camera.
So far I have seen no informations about who is the manufacturer of this sensor.

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by Steen

Everything else being equal

The fact is, they are not. The current crop of APS-C sensors used in DSLRs (and non DSLRs) are far better than any 4/3rds and m4/3rds sensors made by Panasonic.

[jonoslack]

Originally Posted by Vivek

The fact is, they are not. The current crop of APS-C sensors used in DSLRs (and non DSLRs) are far better than any 4/3rds and m4/3rds sensors made by Panasonic.

HI Vivek
I was going to disagree with your YES - as the difference in size between APS-C and 4/3 really shouldn't amount to much (the wrotniak link shows it very well I think).

However - I do agree with you that the current Panasonic sensors found in 4/3 really don't seem to be as good as those in the Canon / Nikon / Sony cameras - a look at the A55 noise levels in Dpreview shows this up pretty well. These differences aren't to do with sensor size, but sensor quality. Pity really.

all the best

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by jonoslack

HI Vivek

However - I do agree with you that the current Panasonic sensors found in 4/3 really don't seem to be as good as those in the Canon / Nikon / Sony cameras - a look at the A55 noise levels in Dpreview shows this up pretty well. These differences aren't to do with sensor size, but sensor quality. Pity really.

all the best

Exactly why I said what I said, Jono. Even if one crops an APS-C sensor image down to fit a 4/3rds image, the difference will be obvious.

A pity indeed.

[jminor]

Thanks for the information folks. Sensor size alone isn't the primary factor of my interest in this camera. And it isn't going to replace my m4/3rds camera, but will be a potential companion to my E-LP1.
Thanks again,
John

[starfm]

Looks cool, might be a good replacement for my current digital camera. Hopefully the price will be good.

[Vivek]

A wicked thought...

Since the camera would have an EVF and liveview, I do not see any harm in ripping the built-in lens off and putting a mount to use this cam as an interchangeable lens camera.

[durrIII]

I am sure that is what they have in mind for the next step.

[jonoslack]

Originally Posted by durrIII

I am sure that is what they have in mind for the next step.

I doubt it - otherwise why didn't they do it in the first step?

[Jorgen Udvang]

Originally Posted by jonoslack

I doubt it - otherwise why didn't they do it in the first step?

There is a rumour floating around that they do indeed have plans for a camera with exchangeable lenses based on the same, or at least a similar, concept. That would make sense, since the viewfinder seems to be a brilliant idea. A semi-EVIL with hybrid viewfinder and a Fuji sensor? I would dig out my wallet relatively fast for that. Just have to buy a wallet first

[Vivek]

I think the Fujinon 23/2 in the proposed X100 is going to be swell.

I also think that it would not be difficult for Fuji to make an interchangeable lens cam.

Leica M mount patents are not there any more, are they? There are hundreds of thousands of Leica fit lenses floating around and very few of them see any action (not counting the fondler varieties) on an M8 or M9.

The hotshoe with connections for a TTL flash on the proposed X100 indicates a system thinking and not just a one off P&S cam.

[jonoslack]

Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang

There is a rumour floating around that they do indeed have plans for a camera with exchangeable lenses based on the same, or at least a similar, concept. That would make sense, since the viewfinder seems to be a brilliant idea. A semi-EVIL with hybrid viewfinder and a Fuji sensor? I would dig out my wallet relatively fast for that. Just have to buy a wallet first

Well, if it comes I can see that there would be some attraction.
Vivek - presumably a modified M mount is the obvious direction - but I wonder if they'll take the obvious, I can see that one might anticipate more lens sales by making proprietary. . . . . . and autofocus too. . . . . . So it would have to be some kind of modified M mount which allowed for electrical connections with AF lenses - interesting thought.

[Jorgen Udvang]

Originally Posted by jonoslack

Well, if it comes I can see that there would be some attraction.
Vivek - presumably a modified M mount is the obvious direction - but I wonder if they'll take the obvious, I can see that one might anticipate more lens sales by making proprietary. . . . . . and autofocus too. . . . . . So it would have to be some kind of modified M mount which allowed for electrical connections with AF lenses - interesting thought.

Fuji would probably design a completely new mount. They aren't afraid of small niches, and they have lots and lots of experience. Something along the lines of a Contax G, but with a hybrid viewfinder and obviously Fujinon lenses.

[Vivek]

Actually, Jono, I am uncertain about the proposed X100 precisely because it has an AF lens.

I am really tired of the CDAF crap.

Fuji could leave those creations to Pana, Sony, Oly, Sam and Leica and make some real lenses.

[jonoslack]

Originally Posted by Vivek

Actually, Jono, I am uncertain about the proposed X100 precisely because it has an AF lens.

I am really tired of the CDAF crap.

Yes - it's been quite a revelation playing with the humble A33 - it sure focuses!

I think I can say that I no longer have a camera which uses CDAF - such a relief!

[Vivek]

What does the A33 offer (AF wise) that the Olympus, Sony, Nikon DSLRs you have used have not?

Really, these A33/55 are a rehash of the old stuff- unless the focusing is superior to the old- isn't it?

Just because they can shoot video and focus accurately (compared to the regular DSLRs)while videoing, does not make them any better to the current crop of DSLRs.

[jonoslack]

Originally Posted by Vivek

What does the A33 offer (AF wise) that the Olympus, Sony, Nikon DSLRs you have used have not?

Really, these A33/55 are a rehash of the old stuff- unless the focusing is superior to the old- isn't it?

Just because they can shoot video and focus accurately (compared to the regular DSLRs)while videoing, does not make them any better to the current crop of DSLRs.

I don't suppose they're better than the current crop of dSLR's - although the continuous focus seems to me to be considerably better than anything I've used before. Certainly when you take a shot and want to continue. Presumably this is because the mirror up doesn't affect the focusing.

But for me the real point is to have something which is very small, and which has a usefully large viewfinder (who would have believed I'd ever say this about an evf). It's really not much bigger than your G1, and the decent high ISO makes a fairly slow kit lens useable - even at fast shutter speeds and a long focal length.

Also it really doesn't seem to hunt.

But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the camera just 'feels' very agile and effective, and I was getting a much higher hit rate with the dog than I ever managed before - even with the D700 and D3 (although that probably relates more to my ability:
1. to swing a camera with a 400 equivalent focal length fast enough
2. understand all the nuances of Nikon's AF module)

Sorry - this is a diversion - but really it's in response to your CDAF comments, which I agree with - I'd rather use manual focus with a rangefinder!

[Jorgen Udvang]

Originally Posted by jonoslack

Sorry - this is a diversion - but really it's in response to your CDAF comments, which I agree with - I'd rather use manual focus with a rangefinder!

It's an interesting diversion. For "slow photography", which I find very satisfying, I'm leaning more and more towards manual focus. I guess I should have a Leica, but they are too costly for me. It will be very interesting to see what the Fuji has to offer within this area.

[jonoslack]

Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang

It's an interesting diversion. For "slow photography", which I find very satisfying, I'm leaning more and more towards manual focus. I guess I should have a Leica, but they are too costly for me. It will be very interesting to see what the Fuji has to offer within this area.

Except that there really isn't anything slow about focusing with a Leica . . faster than CDAF in many circumstances anyway!