new macbook pro retina display... no firewire !

[archivue]

apple, sometimes i just hate you !

;-(

[yaya]

"Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter (sold separately, available July)"...

[jeanlucco]

No good no good, most of the DB have a FW interface.

[Zerimar]

I wonder if it will be enough to power a Phase back?

[jeanlucco]

Originally Posted by yaya

"Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter (sold separately, available July)"...

God help us!

[Stefan Steib]

yes and did you see - only ssd´s inside, max 768GB. No more 17 " and the "upgrade" of the MacPro´s is a lukewarm "tuneup" which if the firmware wouldn´t be closed could have been done by any dealer with spare parts.

I already said it, but after using my 17" for some months I will get a desktop replacement Notebook with "hairs on the chest" e.g. this one:
ASUS 18,4", 32 GB ram,3,5TB Storage (3 GB HD + 512GBSSD) and best : 2000 € !!!!

18.4" ASUS K95V ~ 512GB SSD + 3000GB ~ 32GB RAM ~ WINDOWS 7 PROF ~ NVIDIA GT 630 | eBay

Sorry Apple, too much is too much !

regards
Stefan

[Paul2660]

I would much rather have the (2) USB 3 ports. I have the last gen 15" and miss the usb3. Thunderbolt IMO has a long way to go, items that are Thunderbolt enabled cost 3x more for the basic same thing.

That display will look great, may be a bit hard to calibrate. Also I don't like the way they lock you into the 256 flash hard drive unless you pick the 2.6Ghz processor option.

I also call foul on their 7 hour battery, if it's the same design as the one in the current 15". You are lucky to get 3 hours on it.

Paul

[dougpeterson]

Originally Posted by Zerimar

I wonder if it will be enough to power a Phase back?

The H series (released 2003) and the P20 non plus and P25 non plus (released 2004) require a certain amount of firewire power to (consistently) work correctly.

All P1 backs released between 2005 and 2011 allow the user to change [Menu > Configuration > Power Source] to [Battery] in which case the back ignores the firewire power and just draws power from the battery.

The IQ series backs always use the battery to power the back and only use the tethered power to recharge the battery.

For the P20 non plus and P25 non plus there is a dongle Capture Integration sells which tricks/forces the back to use battery power.

So I don't see this being a big issue.

[Godfrey]

I use a Thunderbolt equipped MacBook Air most of the time, it drives and powers my FW 800 drives through the Thunderbolt display with no problems at all. Far as I'm aware, it's just a pass through port/protocol adaptation.

The new MBP looks great, I'm waiting for a 13" model to come available as I prefer the smaller form factor. Or I'll go for the new MBA 13" with 500G drive and 8G RAM. Plenty of options that suit my needs.

[archivue]

Originally Posted by dougpeterson

The H series (released 2003) and the P20 non plus and P25 non plus (released 2004) require a certain amount of firewire power to (consistently) work correctly.

All P1 backs released between 2005 and 2011 allow the user to change [Menu > Configuration > Power Source] to [Battery] in which case the back ignores the firewire power and just draws power from the battery.

The IQ series backs always use the battery to power the back and only use the tethered power to recharge the battery.

For the P20 non plus and P25 non plus there is a dongle Capture Integration sells which tricks/forces the back to use battery power.

So I don't see this being a big issue.

but what about my leaf aptus II 7... ;-(

[archivue]

@ YAYA : Thunderbolt provides 10 watts of power to peripherals... but will the firewire adaptor provide enough power for a leaf back ?

And is the retina screen any good for colorfidelity and calibration ?

I'm having trouble with my 13" intell core 2 Duo... and my Aptus II 7... it looks like it's a connection and power problem... my dealer said he can resolve the trouble with an active FW800 repeater... but this mean that i can't shoot without mains... so i will probably change my macbook, but i'm lost at the moment...

[archivue]

thanks doug !

2) Use a powered hub (on battery power or from AC)

on battery ? didn't seen any one of these over here !

[dougpeterson]

I've retracted my post.

History has taught me it's best to wait until it's been tested in real life before I give advice :-).

re: powered hub from battery power... you can use a generic [battery>AC power] battery or for instance the old Phase One remote-shooting-solution (hard to find now outside of the larger/better-informed P1 dealers - it was developed for the H series backs in the 90s).

[tashley]

Originally Posted by Stefan Steib

yes and did you see - only ssd´s inside, max 768GB. No more 17 " and the "upgrade" of the MacPro´s is a lukewarm "tuneup" which if the firmware wouldn´t be closed could have been done by any dealer with spare parts.

I already said it, but after using my 17" for some months I will get a desktop replacement Notebook with "hairs on the chest" e.g. this one:
ASUS 18,4", 32 GB ram,3,5TB Storage (3 GB HD + 512GBSSD) and best : 2000 € !!!!

18.4" ASUS K95V ~ 512GB SSD + 3000GB ~ 32GB RAM ~ WINDOWS 7 PROF ~ NVIDIA GT 630 | eBay

Sorry Apple, too much is too much !

regards
Stefan

My God, that thing weighs enough to replace your desk, let alone your desktop!

[tashley]

And any news of the USB 3 being enabled on the IQ series? One year on and that pro use has still not been made good...

[Stefan Steib]

Tim

Actually for being an 18,4 inch display and delivering 2-4x the ram and 4-7x the storage, 2 kg compared to 4,1kg don´t seem so heavy to me.

the only things holding me back right now are
a) waiting to get an Ivy Bridge i7 inside
b) I still don´t know how to adapt firewire to it. It also does not have an express port.
and
c) I hope they may use a bit higher res displays as a result of Apples retinas in some months.

Regards
Stefan

[Zerimar]

Originally Posted by dougpeterson

The H series (released 2003) and the P20 non plus and P25 non plus (released 2004) require a certain amount of firewire power to (consistently) work correctly.

All P1 backs released between 2005 and 2011 allow the user to change [Menu > Configuration > Power Source] to [Battery] in which case the back ignores the firewire power and just draws power from the battery.

The IQ series backs always use the battery to power the back and only use the tethered power to recharge the battery.

For the P20 non plus and P25 non plus there is a dongle Capture Integration sells which tricks/forces the back to use battery power.

So I don't see this being a big issue.

Yes, I am aware of that.

As of now my P45+ back does no receive enough power from my 2010 MBP, or a current iMac to fully power it without a battery (Thus the configuration option to draw off of battery power is enabled on my back)

Phase said this is to do with the current laptops, and iMac's not delivering enough power through the FW800 slow to sufficiently power the back. The IQ backs are nice in the fact that they need a battery, but also charge the battery at the same time.

What I was initially wondering is that through this new thunderbolt port with the fw 800 adaptor, will it have enough power to fully power a P+ back (given its really a thunderbolt connection unlike the old, underpowered fw800 port), similar to how a mac pro will power my back all day without any issues.

[Lars Vinberg]

Hmm 2.5x the pixels of a FHD display, That's quite a load on the GPU which equals battery drain. I think that panel could draw quite a bit of battery juice, regardless if NVidia or Intel is doing the rendering. That said, it is an IPS panel, FINALLY, so there is a good probability that it profiles well.

Specs make me wonder what the target market is - surely not primarily imaging professionals.

Also curious about the cooling, a powerful GPU and a quadcore CPU in an even thinner metal case is a tricky concept.

[tashley]

I vote for lower pixel density panels in some ways: it's hard to edit at 100% on a 200dpi panel without zooming to 200, at which point you'll see pixels as you edit. Retina is great for display (which is what an iPad is for) and not so good for editing, other than the profiling benefits....

[Terry]

Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg

Hmm 2.5x the pixels of a FHD display, That's quite a load on the GPU which equals battery drain. I think that panel could draw quite a bit of battery juice, regardless if NVidia or Intel is doing the rendering. That said, it is an IPS panel, FINALLY, so there is a good probability that it profiles well.

Specs make me wonder what the target market is - surely not primarily imaging professionals.

Also curious about the cooling, a powerful GPU and a quadcore CPU in an even thinner metal case is a tricky concept.

This is where you need to watch the video...yes, I know "marketing" but the cooling is discussed and you can see just how much inside is battery.

Apple - MacBook Pro Family - It

[DeckardTrinity]

Just fyi, I have personally tested the following tethered setup with my 11" Macbook Air: Sonnet TB - Expresscard 3/4 adapter, Sonnet 3/4 FW 800 card, TB to MBA, FW to Leaf Afi 7 back. Generally speaking it works, but I have not had a chance to test whether or not the back can be powered with this configuration alone (mounted to the Hy6 it gets its power from the battery in the grip).

Single shots and bursts of images (10 or so in 15 - 20 seconds) all came through fine in Leaf Capture, but eventually the connection between the back and the MBA gets corrupted / interrupted to the point where you have to power cycle the back and quit / restart LCC. So I would not rely on this configuration in any sort of critical shooting situation.

But, my dream since getting the mid-'11 MBA last year has been to be able to use it tethered to my back, and short of upgrading the back or the laptop, this is probably the best I'll be able to do.

I am curious if the Belkin TB "dock" which is coming out next month will work better than this Sonnet arrangement? Maybe there is too much latency between all these devices (which does quite resemble something out of Frankenstein's lab when all hooked together).

[Lars Vinberg]

Originally Posted by Terry

This is where you need to watch the video...yes, I know "marketing" but the cooling is discussed and you can see just how much inside is battery.

Apple - MacBook Pro Family - It

Yep 97Wh. It's big because it has to be big. A large power drain means heat is generated, which means there is a cooling dilemma. Looking forward to seeing a real world test loading CPU and GPU.

Overall this is one sexy beast, more like an Italian sportscar than a delivery truck. I think Apple is after bragging rights (which they earned by a wide margin with this one). A pro workhorse design would have settled for 1920x1200/1080 resolution, at least as an option.

[Terry]

Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg

A pro workhorse design would have settled for 1920x1200/1080 resolution, at least as an option.

Isn't that exactly what the non retina display 15" MBP is?

[Jay Emm]

Originally Posted by dougpeterson

...History has taught me it's best to wait until it's been tested in real life before I give advice :-)

Amen brother.

[Godfrey]

iFixit tear down (MBA 13"):
MacBook Air 13" Mid 2012 Teardown - iFixit

[Lars Vinberg]

Originally Posted by Terry

Isn't that exactly what the non retina display 15" MBP is?

1440x900 or 1680x1050, so almost but not quite. But we were discussing the Retina.

[Terry]

Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg

1440x900 or 1680x1050, so almost but not quite. But we were discussing the Retina.

Then I misread your original comment...and misinterpreted what you were saying.

[Wayne Fox]

Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg

Specs make me wonder what the target market is - surely not primarily imaging professionals.

I'm sure we're not large enough of a market to have much influence ...

Looks like they combined the Macbook Pro, the Air, and an iPad. I can't imagine pixel density will have any affect on calibration. It's probably still a 6 bit panel that requires dithering to simulate millions of colors so color fidelity will still not be optimum just like other laptops.

I think it sounds like a pretty sweet piece of hardware. I don't tether often, so no biggie for me. The thinner/lighter/long battery life as well as the resolution independent display was enough to get me to order one ...

[Paul_Kerfoot]

Originally Posted by Wayne Fox

I'm sure we're not large enough of a market to have much influence ...

Looks like they combined the Macbook Pro, the Air, and an iPad. I can't imagine pixel density will have any affect on calibration. It's probably still a 6 bit panel that requires dithering to simulate millions of colors so color fidelity will still not be optimum just like other laptops.

I think it sounds like a pretty sweet piece of hardware. I don't tether often, so no biggie for me. The thinner/lighter/long battery life as well as the resolution independent display was enough to get me to order one ...

Hi Wayne

When you get the new MBP with the Retina display, please get back to us with a quick note on how easy/hard it is to color calibrate. I am thinking of one when I replace my current Apple.

Thanks
Paul

[Guy Mancuso]

I'm going to get one pretty soon . I almost ordered it but it falls smack on delivery when I'm on the road so I have to wait till middle of July to order it. I did read that the stores will carry the maxed out one, don't need 728 gb hard drive myself though. I'll order a 2.7 / 16gb/512. I'm trying to get away from FireWire except for my back.

[Godfrey]

MacBook Pro with Retina Display teardown:

Teardown of Retina MacBook Pro finds soldered RAM, proprietary SSD

[Terry]

Yeah - ifixit hates this stuff - less they can do. I don't get uptight about it because I always get Apple Care.

[Giorgio]

Bought a 17" in April 2012 and can not be happier!
And it has a 2.5 Gbps card reader permanently attached to the PCIe interface. Plus 16GB of ram, makes it faster than my Mac Pro which also has 16GB of ram.
Now what attaches to the Thunderbolt socket besides the incredibly expensive LaCie drive?
Files CR2 and FR3, fly through this computer.
Happy trails.

[MGrayson]

For what it's worth:

I just had a look at the new Macbook Pro Retina at the store. It is beautiful, but I won't be getting one. It is noticeably lighter than the older 15" models, true, and I was expecting it to stick to my body and not let go, the way the Leica S2 did. But it just sat there. I guess I'm just addicted to the weight and size of the 13" Air, and with the current model clocking in at about 3 times the speed of my 2010 version (which is pre-Thunderbolt), I'm going with that. 8GB of RAM and 512GB of SSD (both double what I have now) are certainly going to help.

I also have a desktop machine used for most heavy lifting. (Still faster than a laptop, but only just!) If the laptop were going to be my main workstation, I'd have gone with the new 15er.

Wonderful options we all have!

--Matt

[mountainjoe]

Originally Posted by Giorgio

.
Now what attaches to the Thunderbolt socket besides the incredibly expensive LaCie drive?.
Happy trails.

Here's a couple of new port expanders.

Belkin upgrades its Thunderbolt Express Dock before it's even available -- Engadget

Matrox Thunderbolt dock turns MacBooks into desktops for $249

There are more on the way...

Cheers,

[bradhusick]

Just to be clear, you can't upgrade the RAM or the SSD in the new MBP, so order the max you'll ever need when new and pay Apple prices for it. Technically, the SSD will be upgradeable sometime in the future, but we will have to wait and see.

I love my just-prior gen MBP because you can upgrade everything. I now have a 480GB SSD with 6G speed inside, and I can put a second drive in place of the DVD if I care to.

[Godfrey]

Originally Posted by Giorgio

..
Now what attaches to the Thunderbolt socket besides the incredibly expensive LaCie drive? ..

I connect an Apple Thunderbolt Display to the MBA 13". That nets USB, FW800, ethernet, and another Thunderbolt port to connect up with tons of devices, at full speed.

[Godfrey]

Originally Posted by MGrayson

..
I guess I'm just addicted to the weight and size of the 13" Air, and with the current model clocking in at about 3 times the speed of my 2010 version (which is pre-Thunderbolt), I'm going with that. 8GB of RAM and 512GB of SSD (both double what I have now) are certainly going to help.
..
Wonderful options we all have!

+1

Might do the same. An MBA 13" with 8G RAM, 512G SSD and Thunderbolt 27" display does nearly anything I need. The Retina display is beautiful indeed, but the smaller form factor of the 13" screen is what I want for portability. I'd even go to an 11" but there isn't a model with the performance of the 13" yet.

Or maybe, by the I get around to buying, the "MBP 13" Retina Display" will have shipped. That is the machine I'd like.

[Bryan Stephens]

I was about to update my older MBP 15" when the news of the new version came out, so I am going to wait a bit and get the 2.7 Ghz and 16GB of RAM. That should do me for a while anyway. Also, a heck of a lot cheaper than the MacPro option I was looking at.

[vjbelle]

Originally Posted by Godfrey

+1

Might do the same. An MBA 13" with 8G RAM, 512G SSD and Thunderbolt 27" display does nearly anything I need. The Retina display is beautiful indeed, but the smaller form factor of the 13" screen is what I want for portability. I'd even go to an 11" but there isn't a model with the performance of the 13" yet.

Or maybe, by the I get around to buying, the "MBP 13" Retina Display" will have shipped. That is the machine I'd like.

Just purchased this exact machine (MBA 13, 8G, 512G SSD). I also purchased a MBA last August with 4G Ram and 256G SSD and never had a problem working on IQ180 files in the field with lightroom and C1. Wonderful little machine that does everything I need. My PCs take on the heavy lifting for PS.

[Lars Vinberg]

None of the reviews so far mention the technical aspects of the new display panel - bit depth, color gamut. I'd say there is still a fair chance it's an 8-bit panel. Almost all TN panels are 6-bit but for IPS it might be different. The IPS panels that Dell and HP use for their high end workstation laptops are 10-bit per channel, whereas HP used a (quite poor) 6-bit panel in their latest Envy 15 consumer series.

[mountainjoe]

Also from this article - MacBook Pro with Retina display review | The Verge

"Apple is currently selling a Thunderbolt-to-Gigabit Ethernet adapter for $29.99 and at WWDC the company announced plans to release a similar dongle for FireWire 800."

[Stefan Steib]

Well it´s nice to see that Belkin will do a dock that will also do firewire 800, but 399,-$ + 49 $ for a cable to get back something that was included before for free ???

And pardon my maybe naive question - but wasn´t this Notebook supposed to be THAT expensive because it´s so slim and light ? Hmmm, but is it still slim and light when I have to additionally carry a big fat adapter with me that looks like being about 3x as thick as the old macbook pro and probably also weighs 1-2 pounds ?

???? Does this make any sense ????

Regards
Stefan

[Terry]

Stefan- clearly it doesn't meet your needs but that doesn't invalidate the machine or concept. I don't need to plug into Ethernet, I don't have any more FireWire devices, etc. if you need all of that they still exist on the non retina machines. Apple moves on with technology, the pushed out floppy drives, pushed it wifi, pushed out DVD, etc. I don't think your needs are very mainstream.

[Lars Vinberg]

There's also plenty of USB3 options for network, firewire etc. I believe the MBP Retina has USB3?

[adhc]

For a while, people thought the Macbook revolved around us.

Turns out, we revolve around the Macbook.

[Guy Mancuso]

They do sell a 20 dollar Ethernet cable which I still use and would want. Instead of the new belkin box all I would need myself is maybe a USB 3 hub for less than 30 dollars. They do also have a FireWire 800 cable coming soon for 20 same as the Ethernet. With this model your buying the thinnest model around , some things would naturally not work going this thin but like photography they have workarounds. They also have the current MBP that we have today configured exactly like the Retina that has Ethernet and FireWire still built in. You get a choice.

[Terry]

You definItely want the new Ethernet cable. The old USB2 connection was horribly slow.

[ustein]

>You definItely want the new Ethernet cable. The old USB2 connection was horribly slow.

I ordered that too. The USB2 with 100/10 was slower than WiFi I think.

[ustein]

>I believe the MBP Retina has USB3?

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