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Good bye to Medium Format Digital...

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FredBGG

Not Available
After dealing with the lack of reliability (camera lockups and erratic behavior, Phase One), the primitive bodies and the lousy viewfinder/auto focus combination I absolutely had enough of medium format digital. You can add to that poor customer service from Phase One.

Several things brought me to this decision and I'd like to share it here.

I needed a small replacement part from Phase One. The little plastic spacer/guide that fits between the Phase One Body and the vertical grip.

After nearly a month of trying to get it from Phase One or Mamiya I still do not have either the part or an answer. Multiple phone calls to phase one and various dealers got me no where. Phase one just went and sent me the wrong part to get rid of me. Keep in mind I had sent them a photograph of the part I needed..... so I am having the part machined and made out of metal instead of plastic.

In comparison I needed to service an out of production Hasselblad V lens. Three days and it was on it's way back home, despite needing replacement parts.

I won't go into the flakey performance of the Phase One DF. Both mine and rented ones. The Phase One AF was slightly better.

The final decision was after shooting once with a Nikon D800, the 50mm 1.4, the 85mm 1.4G and the 85mm TS. The quality and ergonomics of this camera is quite something. Shadow performance beats even MF digital. The difference is more than I expected. Resolution is so good it's almost ridiculous that it comes out of a little camera you can swing around your neck. It's not quite what I have seen from a higher end MFD, but the sharpest MFD lenses while being very very sharp, they don't have anywhere near the beautiful out of focus rendering of the Nikon 85mm 1.4 or the 85mm TS.
Shooting wide open with the Nikon is a breeze with either live view (best for the tilt shift lens) or the reflex viewfinder.
Shooting tilt shift fashion and portraits with live view from the D800 on an 11 inch tablet screen makes MFD feel like something from last century.
Shooting ultra shallow depth of field on MFD with a subject moving around is just too much of a pain in the *** and just not reliable enough if the feature you want in focus is not in the center of the frame.
In comparison I get a close to 90% hit rate manually focusing an old waist level viewfinder MF film camera, with film or a digital back.

One other really nice thing with the D800 is running video into an HDMI monitor to finely tune optical effects such as shooting with desired lens flare or through partial diffusion or through out of focus foreground elements.
Priceless. The client was very impressed with the rig. Camera and monitor mounted on a movie rig. Using video, not live view is better for absolute high quality image preview. Best of all you don't even have to shut down the video feed to shoot a still.

35mm DSLR digital and true large medium format with film IMHO is a much more powerful combination that Medium format digital. The combination covers a larger range of performance and visual quality than MF digital. The combination also costs about 1/4 of the price. Looks like I might have to buy another car or designer furniture for the office for a tax write off. Actually I'll be putting the investment that ws going to go into the latest and greatest MF digital into a production van and "pied a terre" in Europe.

Arrivederci MFD.... oops actually Adios...

See you in the Nikon section further down the road with some examples....
 

EH21

Member
Interesting perspective and I think a D800 is in my future, but its both for me, not one or the other. I already determined a mamiya DF will not be and actually IMHO that camera poorly represents what MF is about. To me MF is about a nice big viewfinder ... WLF or prism that you can compose with, high speed sync, and a look that's different from smaller formats.
 

darr

Well-known member
Medium format (MF) is not for everyone, and with the experience you describe, I can understand how your frustration led you to your decision. I prefer to shoot MF with a technical body (Alpa Max) and view camera lenses because it is closer to the large format experience that I prefer. I also prefer the simplest design to my camera box. If I can keep the box on my tripod clean and simple and the gadgetry minimized, content comes easier for me to see.

Now your displeasure with the manufacturer and dealer is something readers should pay attention to IMO. There is nothing more frustrating than putting out a lot of money for top-of-the-line gear, only to feel neglected when repair or replacement is needed. I myself would leave that camera design, manufacturer, dealer, etc. like they left me: empty-handed.

I am happy to hear you have found reprise with the D800. I own a D700 and will eventually replace it with a D800, but it will never replace my MF gear.

Good luck to you!
Darr
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Hi Jim

I agree with you about the different look. However that different look is not that different anymore. The faster turnaround in new lens development in the 35mm field has narrowed "the look" gap. Also I personally find that the difference in look between a full frame 35mm sensor and a MF sensor is no where nearly like the difference between 24x36 and 60x80cm of larger medium format film. Then if I compare to 4x5 or 8x10.... well it's another world.

If film is not practical having both 35mm DSLR and medium format digital has it's place.

Fortunately I am close to two of the best labs in the country and the biggest film analogue photography outfit is just down the road.

One thing I have been messing around with is shooting 8x10 right to photopaper. Developing it and scanning it to produce a positive file. They results look really nice and the whole process it dirt cheap. Only limitation is loooooow ISO... it's about 6.

Cool thing is you can use panchromatic paper or paper not sensitive to red.
With regular paper you can even observe the developing.

I am looking for an camera larger than 8x10... should be interesting.

I can't post any of mine as they are for an unpublished project.

Here is an example shot by another guy I found on flickr.


Photo by Morten Bentzon

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortenbentzon/3604759944/in/faves-46355539@N08/



It's sort of like shooting 8x10 polaroids again..... well sort of...

Here are some 8x10 Polaroids I have shot.... the look of 8x10 for portraits is very nice.





 
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Don Libby

Well-known member
Can't say I'm surprised.

This only underscores the need to have a reputable dealer instead of trying to save a buck and buying elsewhere.

Best of luck to you.
 

jsf

Active member
It is funny I was scanning some of my 8x10 paper negatives while reading this. I love the look of the paper neg. I found the ISO to be closer to 4, but, it is slow. I think that the halation and blue sensitivity gives for a Noir effect that cannot be duplicated.I at this moment use a d700 for my dslr and will be adding a d800 for primarily tripod work in the future. But I like what I can do on 4x5 with a 6x9 back, when a soft focus lens or t/s becomes crucial. I have used p/c lenses on 35mm and found them too limited. I have not used the new t/s 24mm Nikon lens I am curious about it, but it is a bit esoteric for the few times that I actually need that function. The tool just gets us where we want to go with as little frustration as is possible. Joe
 

Chris Giles

New member
You know Fred, I'd love to have access to a D800 to try it out compared to my Hassy, In fact I may see if somewhere local has one.

Too many people are singing it's praises in the realm of ISO at low ISO.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Well, don't be so sure things will be perfectly smooth and easy with new 35mm DSLR's....

Nikon tells PDN it is looking for a fix for D800 and D4 lock-up bug: Digital Photography Review

http://www.nikonusa.com/Service-And.../EN-EL15-Battery-Recall-Service-Advisory.html


I'm only half serious - I would never expect, nor more importantly, communicate the expectation that medium format is a nice, smooth ride and any perception of ripples is an exaggeration. It's not as easy, and it's not for everyone. Though I suspect that as the envelope gets pushed harder with 35mm DSLR, products "that just work" may become less the norm. This Nikon "bug" seems like something that years ago would have been unheard of.


Steve Hendrix
 

johnnygoesdigital

New member
Fred,

I too, gave up MFD in favor of MF film and 35mm digital. I was so frustrated with the constant malfunctions in several camera's. While that was frustrating enough, what I didn't expect, was the nasty tone from a few GetDPI members about my complaints. I find that you've been quite respectful in your posts, and judging from your photography, i'd say MFD(Phase One) is going to regret not earning your loyalty...really good work!

If and when MFD gets more realistic with it's pricing, reliability, and functionality, I might think about a demo, but for now the D800 is a game changer.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Best of luck with your new approach Fred.

Cameras have to get out of the way, and if they don't work for you, then new action is most warranted.

Nothing much more to say than that.

-Marc
 

jlm

Workshop Member
another side of the coin is that you have to like your camera, even be excited by it and how it works
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Well, don't be so sure things will be perfectly smooth and easy with new 35mm DSLR's....

Nikon tells PDN it is looking for a fix for D800 and D4 lock-up bug: Digital Photography Review

Service Advisory


I'm only half serious - I would never expect, nor more importantly, communicate the expectation that medium format is a nice, smooth ride and any perception of ripples is an exaggeration. It's not as easy, and it's not for everyone. Though I suspect that as the envelope gets pushed harder with 35mm DSLR, products "that just work" may become less the norm. This Nikon "bug" seems like something that years ago would have been unheard of.


Steve Hendrix
There is a very big difference between a product released a few days ago and a product that was released years ago being buggy.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Can't say I'm surprised.

This only underscores the need to have a reputable dealer instead of trying to save a buck and buying elsewhere.

Best of luck to you.
This has nothing to do with having a reputable dealer or not.

Problems have been with owned and rental gear. My decision was also based on the experience of others.

Not being able to get a part of a current model camera from the manufacturer or through dealers is just plain ridiculous if you are dealing with high end professional gear.

The irony is that I was on the verge of making an investment in more MF gear due to the fact that my celebrity portrait work is starting to pay back big time with advertising work. It seems that more and more is revolving around celebrity endorsement and editorials. When the client has deep pockets for the celebrity endorsements they also have deeper pockets for the photographer.

I also like the idea of shooting with the same type of camera my client swings around his neck... makes it more about the photographer than the gear.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
It is funny I was scanning some of my 8x10 paper negatives while reading this. I love the look of the paper neg. I found the ISO to be closer to 4, but, it is slow.
Yup the iso is slooooow.

I still have my 6,000 w/s flash heads and a battery of AS3000 Elinchrom packs from my 8x10 polaroid days.
 

JonMo

New member
I can understand your frustration.

I never bought the DF, stuck with an old AFDIII and never used it much.
 
I just got into MF tech cameras with a Cambo RS and a couple of Schneider lenses and was thinking of selling away my Nikon d700 and a whole array of lenses, I guess I shall hold on to the 24TSE and maybe the D800E will be a good match.
I am an architectural photographer and am happy with my 5Dm2 and the 17/24TSE's, the move to MF was to get back to the ways of shooting on LF slowing down the entire process which may hopefully result in better pictures visually and not so much technically. I am still keeping my canon gear!!
 

johnnygoesdigital

New member
"I also like the idea of shooting with the same type of camera my client swings around his neck... makes it more about the photographer than the gear."


Exactly!
 

FredBGG

Not Available
I just got into MF tech cameras with a Cambo RS and a couple of Schneider lenses and was thinking of selling away my Nikon d700 and a whole array of lenses, I guess I shall hold on to the 24TSE and maybe the D800E will be a good match.
I am an architectural photographer and am happy with my 5Dm2 and the 17/24TSE's, the move to MF was to get back to the ways of shooting on LF slowing down the entire process which may hopefully result in better pictures visually and not so much technically. I am still keeping my canon gear!!
You don't need a camera to slow yourself down. There are times where I will do a shoot with 35mm DSLR and shoot only 20 shots over the whole shoot taking my time to make each shot count. Same thing even with MF polaroids.

Here for example I did a complete portrait shoot with 5 8x8 cm polaroids.

Here are 3 final shots used.








I did a portrait shoot with Tommy Chong. I only took 12 shots for the whole sitting.... taking my time. Canon DSLR capable of several shots per second ;)

Here is the result:



Same thing with Larry King



Pretty much the same thing with the other 300 or so celebrity portraits I've done.

Never let the top speed of your camera determine the rhythm of your shoot.
If it can do 12 frames per second it is capable of doing 1 per minute too.
 
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