Capture One Version 5 Released

[thomas]

Originally Posted by dougpetersonci

Hey everyone. There is SO MUCH to talk about with the new version that I'm curious whats on YOUR mind? That will help me prioritize my own blogging/articles/training.

Doug, actually there is not so much to talk. The new tools are without exception great and well implemented.
The software comes to a state where it is all about workflow, not about certain tools that are mostly self-explaining.
So for you articles and trainings (don't know what you are doing there so I just can guess...) I think it colud be interessting to adress different kinds of workflows including appropriate sets of keyboard shortcuts and workspaces, different ways to customize the tool tabs and so on.
5.0 now really enables a fast workflow... similar to V3. I'd emphasize the "V3" in V5.0. to create awareness.
Certainly 5.0 should have been 4.2. But that's history and 5.0 finally doesn't lack of essential V3 features anymore. Not in every detail but roughly.

Some hints regarding workflow:
- you sure noticed that the focus mask applies to the image in the viewer and to the thumbnails but does not apply to the focus tool. That's a consequent concept: you can check focus with the focus mask and at the same time you can see the clear image (in the focus tool). Create a workspace / layout for that.
- tool tabs: me I switch tool tabs via keyboard - next/previous. So for me it makes a lot of sense to reduce the number of tool tabs and to place those I rarely need on the side. See screenshot - I actually only use quick-, lens-, exposure- and color-tab. With the new local copy/apply I don't need the adjustments-tab anymore so I swapped it to the side. I access metadata via ctrl+I, library via ctrl+L.
The "details" tab is included in my lens tab. "overlay" is in the camera tab and cropping is in the output tab. I never use rotation. "Process" is my keyboard on cmd+P.
The histogram is on top of all the tabs followed by the focus tool in quick-, lens- and exposure-tab.
The order of my tool tabs follow my reading of image editing - "light" first, "color" second. The lens tab on the second (fourth) position is only placed there as I do a lot of large format stuff and also because I want to check NR and sharpening (for preview only) before editing curves. Too, I apply lens corrections to my MF files as well so after rough adjustments in the quick tab I first want to adjust a "clean" image before I go ahead to "exposure" where I've cloned "base characteristics", "exposure" and "HDR" from the quick tab ... so I don't switch back to the quick tab to access these tools if needed in conjunction with curves.

So ... just an example. That's my personal concept and there are a lot of ways to create a personal workflow. But that's what is the most interessting in V5.0 from my point of view.

Hope that helps a little bit.

[Jack Flesher]

Interesting how many different approaches you can have with this software. Unlike Thomas, I cram my most used tools into my Quick tab, including lens corrections. Color editor I leave under Color. I keep all my focus tools under the detail tab, including three focus windows for center and two corners -- I also keep the sharpening, noise, moire and spot tools there for quick access. I only use the process tab to store my recipies, and keep the naming tool in my Q tab. While I have the histo in every tab, it's usually closed in my Q tab and I use the levels histo there as I usually make levels adjustments --- granted, the two histos can be slightly different depending on the adjustments being made, but makes for an easy workflow...

[Guy Mancuso]

I'm a quick tab adjustment junkie as well i load up all the important tools to me in one tab so I don't jump around too much. Here is a look at my quick tab. For me outside of these tools mostly used would be color editor and lens corrections

[Guy Mancuso]

Not seen so much in that last image because it is far better than shown is sharpness. it seems too me that Phase put some real effort in the sharpening algorithms. My images are even better now than what I remember from this shoot a couple months ago and been noticing it since. I do have my previews set at 1200 in preferences since this seems a nice balance between speed and on screen rendering . No longer am i seeing a veil effect in C1 with my P30+ files. They come in sharp and crisp and stay that way in the rendering of the previews. So now my previews are matching my output. Before my output images where sharper than my previews. Seems now they match identical which makes it far easier to judge than guess at on output. So far i like Version 5 obviously with a new version like this some things will come along and makes it even better with a update but so far i am pretty happy with it.

BTW i do use pre-sharpening 1 and also dropped my noise defaults down to 0 on luminance at my base ISO's

[Jack Flesher]

Some other thoughts:

1) I wish we had a short-cut to toggle the focus mask on and off, like change CMD-F. I doubt anybody uses auto adjustments in C1 anyway... Or better yet, let us assign/modify our own short-cut list -- I see the "edit shortcuts" panel, but can't seem to do anything with it other than read it.

2) Sharpening settings -- with v5 I've had to cut back on my normal amounts by around 25% to avoid high-frequency artifacts. I suspect it's due to better deconvolution algorithms extracting more/better from the files to begin with.

3) C1 needs to get off their somewhat arrogant convention stance and adopt more of the basic Photoshop shortcut conventions. Like it or not, Photoshop was the grandaddy here.

[Guy Mancuso]

I agree Jack focus mask needs a short cut key or even put in a quick tab. Maybe next update. I like the CMD-F idea

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

Interesting how many different approaches you can have with this software. Unlike Thomas, I cram my most used tools into my Quick tab, including lens corrections.

yes, and that's a very good thing! Clearly shows that the software offers options instead of forcing you to go a determined way.
It also depends on the screen size of course... I prefer not to collapse/expand the tools so I don't put more tools in a tool tab as fitting in the pane expaned (except for "clarity" in the lens tab that I don't use actually).

Too, it depends on how the whole thing works together with your shortcut settings. Switching tool tabs is actually faster than moving the mouse in the vertical orientation of the monitor... for me personally.

Attached my tool tabs.

[Jack Flesher]

I use clarity on almost every image, and in fact have a default assigned via my basic "styles" set! Just goes to show, different strokes...

,

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

I use clarity on almost every image, and in fact have a default assigned via my basic "styles" set! Just goes to show, different strokes...,

yes. So you adjust a somehow final image in C1. I adjust for quite a "soft" TIF with the full histogram data. I do define a certain look and do a lot of things in the color editor but I always preserve a full histogram at the RAW stage (as I store the "original" 16bit TIFs in my archive).
"Clarity" is not reflected in the histogram so I avoid to use it unless they implement it accurate. That doesn't matter if you adjust an image with a final look but it matters if you want to preserve a full histogram in the archive file.

[Guy Mancuso]

I agree Thomas i am glad we are not force feed into a certain work flow . This customization is really the key to this software and workflow

[Joseph Ramos]

Am I correct in that if I have Capture One that came bundled with my M8 I can not use that code to upgrade to 5?

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso

This customization is really the key to this software and workflow

and this makes it actually better than V3... finally.
I'm still somehow pissed about the cache location but I changed my backup settings and meanwhile it's okay. Too, some minor annoyances for instances as to missing shortcut customization for certtain things like zoom in/out.
But all in all V5 makes me forget that V4 ever existed and I don't feel sentimental about V3.7.9 :-)

[Jack Flesher]

Originally Posted by thomas

"Clarity" is not reflected in the histogram so I avoid to use it unless they implement it accurate.

Actually, clarity changes DO show up in the levels histo, one of the reasons I use it instead of the main histo

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

Actually, clarity changes DO show up in the levels histo, one of the reasons I use it instead of the main histo

care to elaborate?
Attached how it looks like on my machine (from the very beginning, not just in V5).
On the Phase forums there were reports about that and the Phase guys confirmed that it is not reflected in the histogram.

As to the levels histogram there is a bug as it sometimes interacts with the capture refered histogram of exopsure evaluation under certain circumstances.
In any case the levels histogram MUST be output referred otherwsie there's something wrong. Histogram, histo in curves and histo in levels are output refered... this is how it works... should work.

[beamon]

Originally Posted by Joseph Ramos

Am I correct in that if I have Capture One that came bundled with my M8 I can not use that code to upgrade to 5?

That's what I'm getting out of what I've read, so far, Joseph.

[selsoe]

The Focus Mask can be assigned a keyboard shortcut in the shortcut editor. Works fine here

[Joseph Ramos]

Thanks for the reply Roger hopefully Doug can answer this.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by beamon

That's what I'm getting out of what I've read, so far, Joseph.

why "mad"?
I'd pay for upgrades and would even appreciate to pay for upgrades if this would enable Phase One to hire more specialists in the software developpment department. It would speed up things, we would have less bugs, a shorter time span for fixes, innovative + intelligent features earlier.
Every Photoshop update is charged. If you don't like to pay, stay with V3 or V4.

[Jack Flesher]

Originally Posted by thomas

care to elaborate?
Attached how it looks like on my machine (from the very beginning, not just in V5).
On the Phase forums there were reports about that and the Phase guys confirmed that it is not reflected in the histogram.

As to the levels histogram there is a bug as it sometimes interacts with the capture refered histogram of exopsure evaluation under certain circumstances.
In any case the levels histogram MUST be output referred otherwsie there's something wrong. Histogram, histo in curves and histo in levels are output refered... this is how it works... should work.

I realize the levels histo is output referred -- when I make a clarity adjustment, the levels histo moves.

[stephengilbert]

Guy mentioned to me he didn't particularly like the color of the focus mask. Rummaging around in the Preferences, I discovered that you can change the color. Click Focus, then click the color box, and you'll get a color wheel to choose from.

Steve

[Jack Flesher]

Originally Posted by selsoe

The Focus Mask can be assigned a keyboard shortcut in the shortcut editor. Works fine here

Awesome! Finally figured it out. I got the duplicate and rename part, but did not find the click to make a change. They really need a box that outlines the click area for editing the actual shortcut...

I agree the default green for the focus mask is wrong for landscape, so I changed it to the exact opposite, saturated magenta . I also dropped the threshold to 200 and the opacity to 30.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

when I make a clarity adjustment, the levels histo moves.

and the regular histogram and that in curves also move?

[Guy Mancuso]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

Awesome! Finally figured it out. I got the duplicate and rename part, but did not find the click to make a change. They really need a box that outlines the click area for editing the actual shortcut...

I agree the default green for the focus mask is wrong for landscape, so I changed it to the exact opposite, saturated magenta . I also dropped the threshold to 200 and the opacity to 30.

Well I can't make a change. Weird

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso

Well I can't make a change. Weird

first you have to create a new keyboard set. Click on "duplicate", enter a name, hit enter.
Double click in the right side of the command in the shortcut table... it's a bit hard to find first but it's straight under the column "Key".

[Guy Mancuso]

Thanks will try when I get home

[Jack Flesher]

Originally Posted by thomas

and the regular histogram and that in curves also move?

Well I lied. It seems that now clarity is not affecting my levels histo --- can't understand that as I am almost certain it did before...

[Jack Flesher]

Originally Posted by thomas

first you have to create a new keyboard set. Click on "duplicate", enter a name, hit enter.
Double click in the right side of the command in the shortcut table... it's a bit hard to find first but it's straight under the column "Key".

Actually a single-click works once the shortcut is highlighted -- you just need to make sure the pointer is over the shortcut letter itself.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

Well I lied.

I think Capture One lied :-)

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

Actually a single-click works once the shortcut is highlighted

true

[Guy Mancuso]

Cool made it Option F and it works a charm.

Love this forum

[cmb_]

The Focus Tool in combination with the Focus Mask is really great! It has really helped in reviewing images. The Focus Tool is much improved from the one in version 3.

The Spot Removal, although only working with dust at the moment, is also nice but I find I am still checking in Photoshop until I get comfortable using it.

The Vignetting Tool is very very good, better than what I was doing in PS before. Actually, lots of great stuff in the Lens Correction Tab.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso

Cool made it Option F and it works a charm.

make sure that it works independently of "pick focus point" that is coded for the focus tool by the key "F".
Take alt+F or ctrl+F or cmd+F or so...

The shortcuts for the tools in the toolbar are always related to the respective tools.

[Jack Flesher]

CMD+F is default for apply auto-adjustments, so I changed that one to Shift+CMD+F and then set the focus mask toggle to CMD+F. As far as I've seen, the shortcut editor won't let you change something to a shortcut that already exists? FIW I have set the viewer toggle too (to CMD+Y) and it makes browsing a lot faster/easier.

[beamon]

My bad use of the emoticon, Thomas. Saw the turned down mouth and thought of "frown" which is what I meant to convey. So substitute the with a , ok? (Note to self: gotta look at both mouth AND eyebrows)

What is being demonstrated here is that an upgrade policy that is so complex as to be difficult to understand requires some revamping by P1. It would appear that, as we speak, they're trying to get their act together. That's good! (Wish our government would do the same. )

Originally Posted by thomas

why "mad"?

Originally Posted by beamon

That's what I'm getting out of what I've read, so far, Joseph.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

As far as I've seen, the shortcut editor won't let you change something to a shortcut that already exists?

with the exception of a few shortcuts that are fixed (like cmd+Q; cmd+Z etc.) the keyboard editor displays a warning but you can overwrite the old shortcut.
You can even use W, F, Z, F but in this case the shortcut would activate 2 tools... like in Guys setting F would activate "pick focus point" and at the same time the focus mask.

FIW I have set the viewer toggle too (to CMD+Y) and it makes browsing a lot faster/easier.

yes, I do it since V3. first hide viewer, sort and tag images, sort by tag, show viewer.

These are the "toogle shortcuts" I use permanently:
(toolbar always hidden)
toggle tools - alt T
toggle browser - alt B
toggle viewer - alt V (second viewer with ctrl V)
toggle guides - alt G
toggle focus mask - alt F

[thomas]

Originally Posted by beamon

My bad use of the emoticon, Thomas.

ah, okay. no trouble at all!

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

I installed C1 5 a few days ago - very simple upgrade from v4 with just a couple of crashes until I uninstalled the various preferences as per Capture Integration's excellent advice. Now it works just fine on both MacPro and MacBook Pro.

BUT - a question! I have a PDF from Phase One called Lens Optimization. It states that all Phase/Mamiya lens can be corrected - but the only one I can see is for the 28 mm lens. No other Mamiya lenses show up.

On the lens correction tab bar the little arrow brings up many Contax and H'blad lenses - but no Phase/Mamiya. The next tab, "Generic" shows only the 28 mm lens, though the illustration in the PDF shows the 80 mm.

What am I missing?

Bill

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne

The next tab, "Generic" shows only the 28 mm lens, though the illustration in the PDF shows the 80 mm.
What am I missing?

Only those settings show up that meet the EXIF data of the file. Select an image that was shot with a 80mm lens and you'll see the Phase One AF 80/2.8 and the Schneider LS 80/2.8.

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

Yes, I see that, Thomas - but what about the other D lenses? I have the 120 and 150 D and they don't show. (I don't have the 80D).
Bill

[Ralph Eisenberg]

From v 3.7.9 Pro and earlier, I've been accustomed to using a resizable floating window for the Focus tool, with all tool tabs closed, to make initial portrait selects. Is there any possibility to create a keyboard shortcut to toggle the floating window for the focus tool in v.5 ?

This has been a very helpful thread. Seeing how others configure and use CO has allowed me to learn how I might use it more effectively and in a way that differs from my old habits.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Ralph Eisenberg

Is there any possibility to create a keyboard shortcut to toggle the floating window for the focus tool in v.5 ?

unfortunately not.
Workarounds:
Try the second viewer (menu "window"-> viewer) ... I think for your particular purposes it will work just as the focus tool. You can assign a shortcut to the second viewer.
Or mabye you create the focus tool as floating window and collapse/expand it when needed... you can place it on the top of the interface so it doesn't hurt when collapsed.

[Ralph Eisenberg]

Originally Posted by thomas

unfortunately not.
Workarounds:
Try the second viewer (menu "window"-> viewer) ... I think for your particular purposes it will work just as the focus tool. You can assign a shortcut to the second viewer.
Or mabye you create the focus tool as floating window and collapse/expand it when needed... you can place it on the top of the interface so it doesn't hurt when collapsed.

Thanks. I just wanted the confirmation that it was not possible to assign a shortcut. I put this in as a feature request in beta, as I think it would be useful (at least for me out of habit it is).

[Guy Mancuso]

Just found another cool feature you can hold the command key down highlight a tool tab and move it in place to where you want so what I did was move unused tool tabs put them at the end so the batch tool does not get hidden. Obviously you can delete a tool tab as well

[Jack Flesher]

Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso

Just found another cool feature you can hold the command key down highlight a tool tab and move it in place to where you want so what I did was move unused tool tabs put them at the end so the batch tool does not get hidden. Obviously you can delete a tool tab as well

Awesome -- was trying to figure out how to do that outside of deleting them the re-adding them back in!

[selsoe]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

Awesome -- was trying to figure out how to do that outside of deleting them the re-adding them back in!

The option is actually mentioned in the tooltip for the tabs.

[Guy Mancuso]

But that requires reading a manual.

[Jack Flesher]

Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso

But that requires reading a manual.

There's a manual?

[Jack Flesher]

Crash reports:

FWIW, still getting pretty regular program crashes on my 8-core Mac Pro, usually only involves the browser, either navigating to a different session's images from an existing session, or scrolling though a large block of images as the focus mask tool is still rendering the new browser images. I can replicate the focus mask crash behavior on my laptop, but not the navigating crash.

[Guy Mancuso]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

There's a manual?

Yea your supposed to write it.

[Ralph Eisenberg]

Well, here at least Phase has been incontrovertibly consistent since v 1. I suggested to them that they allow third-party video training programs to be made which would allow user's to become conversant with and optimize their use of the many features that CO contains.