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GRD II vs. GX-100 - I'm stuck

M

meilicke

Guest
First off - thank you to all for making this such a wonderful forum. I am addicted :).

I need help choosing which small camera to buy - I have narrowed my choices to the GRDII or GX-100, principally for the handling, high IQ and flash/OVF shoe. I live in the Northwest of the USA (Seattle, WA), and during the winter it is fairly dark. Whether it be high ISO (my preference) or flash, I need a camera that can work well with typical indoor lighting. I do have a dslr with fast primes, but that is not always with me or convenient.

What I like about the GX-100:
* less expensive than the GRDII ($750 with OVF vs. $1100 for the GRDII with OVF and 40mm attachment)
* 28,35,50 step zoom (24 and 72 are less important to me - icing on the cake)

What I like about the GRDII
* 1.5 - 2 stops advantage at 28 or 35/40, considering the faster lens and better high iso performance.
* Better flash control
* Faster RAW buffer
* 28mm plus 40 with the adaptor is fine

Is the GRDII really 1.5-2 stops better as I am guessing? Is the flash control on the GX-100 that bad?

Now, I am almost embarrassed to write this next bit, but... I find the Pentax 31mm limited prime that I use about 80% of the time on my dslr to be delightful. Very sharp, and most importantly, it sometimes has an almost mystical, 3-d popping look (sorry for the cliche, but it's true!). Does the GRDII come close to this? It seems it might, considering the contrast and sharpness of the lens, but I am having a hard time trying to find a lot of color examples. $1100 seems like a lot of money to me, but if the GRDII has similar characteristics (dof and noise aside), I would gladly pay more...

Thank you,
Scott
 
J

jorgeAD

Guest
I'd suggest you go with the GX-100 because you seem to want an equivalent field of view of about 45mm (31mm limited on a Pentax DSLR)... Yes the the GRD II can give you that but with the GH-1 adapter and 40mm attachment it is no longer pocketable... I think you'll actually be surprised how close in overall size (not weight) the GRD II + GH-1 + 40mm attachment is to a Pentax DSLR with the 31mm Limited pancake lens...

The GX-100 on the other hand doesn't need any attachments to achieve this equivalent field of view and remains very compact, thus going where not even the Pentax + pancake lens is likely to make it... (you mention the Pentax size isnt always convenient for you).

Now about the "3-d popping" bit...

Your are comparing some of the sharpest DSLR lenses available (Pentax Limited primes) to the GR Lens... but must keep in mind we are talking about a sensor aproximately nine times as large in the Pentax. The GR lenses and sensor combination excels at macro and whenever enormous depth of field is required... The GRD II lens in particular is a bit sharper and contrastier than the GX100 at the wide end (not really a surprise since its a prime)... but since you state you use the 31mm L for 80% of your photography... will this advantage be of any use to you?

It seems to me the "3-d popping" of prime lenses on DSLRs (at least of my 50mm F1.8 and 100mm F2) are not just a function of sharpness and contrast, which Ricoh lenses do have, but of the transition to out-of-focus areas and the way out-of-focus highlights are imaged (bokeh), something small sensor cameras just can't match.

Then again the GRD II might open new opportunities for you, I have had mine for a month and despite some dynamic range concerns couldnt be happier with it (but then I already loved the 28mm EFV). You can check some of my best GRD II images and tips at my Flickr page.

It recently got marked as MODERATE due to some creative nudes. So you'll need to be signed in and change your filter settings by going to "your Account"-->"Privacy & Permissions"-->"Content filters"-->"Edit"-->"Safe Search Off (or Moderate")-->"Save Changes":

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49608525@N00/?saved=1
 
S

Sean_Reid

Guest
Hi Scott,

Let's see now if I can return some of the help you've given me so far on the Mac/PC stuff.

Each person has a different idea of what the "3D Look" is but I agree with Jorge that what some may be describing is a visual effect that is created by a combination of lens contrast and controlled depth of field. As Jorge says, deep DOF goes with this format but, for higher lens contrast I would say the cameras to think about are the GR2 and, as Maggie says, the D-Lux 3.

I'll add some color pictures to the GR2 article if I make any.

Cheers,

Sean
 
M

meilicke

Guest
Thank you all for your thoughts.

Jorge and Sean, good points regarding dof/sharpness and how they contribute to the 3-d look.

Maggie, how do you combat low light with the d-lux? From the pix I have seen on this forum (will look at your flikr tonight), increasing the iso seems like the way you have gone. Does the d-lux offer adequate controls around flash comp? I do like the dedicated AF/AE button on the leica/panny. It seems a bit simpler, and more what I am used to, than the Ricohs.

Jorge, thanks for the warning about your gallery. I'll look at home tonight. My reference to the 31 limited was more for the quality vs. focal length. I have been walking around with my 16-45 lens taped at 28mm effective for the last month or so, and find it quite nice. Sure is big though :)

Regarding the GX100 - does the lack of flash compensation make flash difficult for primary lighting that would be used inside? I might use an external flash, bouncing off the ceiling, or possibly couple an external flash with a flash radio. The GRDII with flash comp. seems better suited to this for indoor use (combined with the better high iso performance and slightly faster lens).

My gut tells me to go with the GRDII, but I have a love/hate relationship with my gut.

Thanks,
Scott
 

Maggie O

Active member
Scott, I shoot my D-Lux 3 at all ISOs, save 1600. I shoot RAW, and have been using LightZone to do PP. I will usually leave the Flash EV at -1 and that tames it nicely. If I can tell you anything else, just ask.
 
M

meilicke

Guest
Thanks Maggie, much appreciated. Have you ever used an external flash as a slave with an optical trigger?
 

Maggie O

Active member
No, can't say that I have. Not with the D-Lux 3, at least. I would imagine it could be done, with some work, though.
 
M

meilicke

Guest
Thank you all for your help with my dilemma, including those who have been posting images and talking about both cameras in other threads. In the end I bought a used GX-100 (from Amin on this site - thanks Amin). Both cameras had weaknesses that were significant to me, so it was a real struggle to commit to either one. The lower price of the used GX-100, and an ideal package (camera plus CV 28/35 finder), sealed the deal. Perhaps something will come up in a year or so, but in the mean time, I will enjoy the new camera!

-Scott
 
W

wbrandsma

Guest
Congrats Scott with your new camera. I hope you will enjoy the camera as much as I do. I made this photo at the World Sprint Speed Skating Championships with 1/2 second exposure. Flash was not allowed here!

 
M

meilicke

Guest
Wouter, it is mighty impressive how sharp those skaters are considering the exposure time.
 
W

wbrandsma

Guest
Not only that. They where doing more than 32 miles per hour!
 
M

meilicke

Guest
Wouter, how did you capture that picture? Monopod? Propped on someone's head? I'm dying to know...
 
P

paralx

Guest
Great Shots!

So far I've been more than happy with the GRDII. I feel like I'm able to make images no matter the situation. Attached are a couple of images from very different situations. (The color one taken at ISO 80 the black and white one taken at ISO 800).

Best of luck with your new camera - I'm sure you'll enjoy it!
 
W

wbrandsma

Guest
Wouter, how did you capture that picture? Monopod? Propped on someone's head? I'm dying to know...
Thank you all. I guess with a steady hand, a lot of luck, and no drinking! Speedskating races in the Netherlands have a very celebrational (carnaval) atmosphere and the crowd drink, dance, and sing a lot.
 
M

meilicke

Guest
Now that I think about it, I have some slow shutter shots from my Canon S45 I had a few years ago. That was a fun camera. This picture was from a baseball game in Connecticut, USA, with a shutter speed of 1/13.

-Scott
 

Mitchell

New member
Wouter,

I like the speed skating photo, but I'm very confused by it. I don't see how the skaters could be so sharp at 1/2 second, and 32 mph. I certainly believe you, but I'm amazed. Were you panning with them?
I would think the motion of their hands and legs would blur even if you were panning.

Just very curious how you pulled it off.

Best,

Mitchell
 
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