Comparisons between 5DMkII and 1DsMkIII

[johnastovall]

I'm needing to start serious planing for a second Canon dSLR and move my 5D to a back up role. Have there been any detailed comparisons between the 5DMkII and the 1DsMkIII? I had planed on a 5DII but it seems to have problems. A clean used 1DsMkIII would give my a weather sealed pro-grade camera which I can look to many years of use out of. Canon's are my bread and butter cameras which I use when there's money on the table.

So, those who have used both what are your opinions? Any serious comparisons out there (no KR please).

[atufte]

Hi John

I have used 1Ds MKIII for a good year and can tell you, there is a reason i sold my 1Ds MKIII and bought two 5D MKII instead, of course the AF engine in MKIII is better but i think Canon's AF system stinks anyway (the Nikon system is WAY better) but if you use center point for AF and manual focus lenses, the 5D2 is the perfect tool and i think it has the edge IQ wise over the 1Ds MKIII which is way more important than weather sealing for me, but of course this might not be the case for everybody, but after using the 5D MKII in the tundra, in rain storms, snowstorms temperatures shifting from +10 to -15 in real humid conditions in Iceland...i do not think i could not be more happy with a camera, my only complaint would be the CF card door which really is a "shame on you Canon" my compact digital has a better more rigid card door than this, not that important but a shame anyway...


Buy two 5D MKII's and some Zeiss lenses, and i promise you mind blowing IQ... it's a Pro camera, not a semi Pro (just don't look at the CF card door:-)

[Jack Flesher]

Nice Tundra crawler!

[Mark_Tuttle]

Originally Posted by atufte

Buy two 5D MKII's and some Zeiss lenses, and i promise you mind blowing IQ... it's a Pro camera, not a semi Pro (just don't look at the CF card door:-)

Which Zeiss lenses do you favour?

Mark

[atufte]

Originally Posted by Mark_Tuttle

Which Zeiss lenses do you favour?

Mark

They are all good, but my favorite is Zeiss Planar 50/2 ZE (love the fact that it has a built in aperture control and no ring, so you can change aperture from the camera, and works as good as any EF lens, just with manual focus of course, you do not need to stop down either..) I'm a 50mm guy...

And the Zeiss 21 C/Y (of course) which also comes in ZE very soon, and the Zeiss Biogon 35/2 (which i hope comes out in ZE very soon...) 100 Macro and Planar 85....

I also use some EF lenses from time to time, but not much, because i do not like their color rendering, and the cheap plastic feel they all have, the Zeiss lenses feel and operates just like my Leica M/Zeiss ZM lenses... which i love...i thin precision is the word...

[johnastovall]

Guys, I have a full run of L primes up to 400mm and when shooting for papers AF is the name of the game. I get very nervous when I see the failure rate of 5DMkIII's as documented at Luminous Landscape. Then there is Ron Purdy's giving up on the 5DMkII because of it's focusing problems. Then here are more...

[atufte]

Originally Posted by johnastovall

Guys, I have a full run of L primes up to 400mm and when shooting for papers AF is the name of the game. I get very nervous when I see the failure rate of 5DMkIII's as documented at Luminous Landscape. Then there is Ron Purdy's giving up on the 5DMkII because of it's focusing problems. Then here are more...

I think there are maybe 1% of the already massive amount of 5D MKII owners having this problems, so i would not be to worried, it's dangerous to read to much forums... Remember 98% of all the 5D MKII users never post or even read these forums...(every time a new camera is hitting the streets, the same things happen, ok the Antarctica thing was bad, but if you bring cameras without weather sealing (or with sealing as well) in and out of + to - temperatures, humidity builds up and things will eventually get screwed up, remember it's electronics, and believe me i have seen the same things happen to cameras such as 1D MKII/III and D2X/D3 as well, the only safe shot will be a battery less Leica...)

But i have tested the 5D MKII in pretty ruff conditions, and every thing went well without any problems what so ever...(i brought two 5D MKII's like i would with any other camera on "expeditions" like this...)

[johnastovall]

Question? Did your 5DMkII's have the extended grips on them?

[Uaiomex]

The 5D Mk2 is possibly the camera with more found glitches in the history of photography. Possibly a side cause for being so popular, but who knows for sure. I'm still holding my purchase till the dust sets for good. At this pace, I'll buy a Mark3 (lol)

Eduardo

Originally Posted by atufte

I think there are maybe 1% of the already massive amount of 5D MKII owners having this problems, so i would not be to worried, it's dangerous to read to much forums... Remember 98% of all the 5D MKII users never post or even read these forums...(every time a new camera is hitting the streets, the same things happen, ok the Antarctica thing was bad, but if you bring cameras without weather sealing (or with sealing as well) in and out of + to - temperatures, humidity builds up and things will eventually get screwed up, remember it's electronics, and believe me i have seen the same things happen to cameras such as 1D MKII/III and D2X/D3 as well, the only safe shot will be a battery less Leica...)

But i have tested the 5D MKII in pretty ruff conditions, and every thing went well without any problems what so ever...(i brought two 5D MKII's like i would with any other camera on "expeditions" like this...)

[atufte]

Originally Posted by johnastovall

Question? Did your 5DMkII's have the extended grips on them?

No...

[ptomsu]

Folks

I have a 5D2 and this is my Canon entry level camera, as I was using Nikon D3 and several high end Nikon glass before (still keep it).

I LOVE the 5D2, everything, the IQ, the handling, speed, etc, etc. And I lofe the EF glass! And I know it is sometimes better than Nikkors.

But for me the 5D2 delivers simply the best IQ available toay in a FF DSLR. And I really mean that. Especially if it comes to higher ISO and the combination of High ISO and high resolution.

Build quality could be better in some areas, also the AF sucks, but as I am most times using central point AF this is perfectly ok!

[fotografz]

Originally Posted by johnastovall

Guys, I have a full run of L primes up to 400mm and when shooting for papers AF is the name of the game. I get very nervous when I see the failure rate of 5DMkIII's as documented at Luminous Landscape. Then there is Ron Purdy's giving up on the 5DMkII because of it's focusing problems. Then here are more...

WOW! That is some horrifying rate of D5MK-II failure. Good to see the lone Sony A900 performed "flawlessly". If it had gone down, that would be a 100% rate of failure

Poor Canon users ... turned into Alpha/Beta testers because some marketing wizard had to rush the camera to market.

The continuing degrading of IQ in the stupid marketing ploy to jack up high ISO performance, and the 1DMKIII focusing fiasco with Canon's initial denials, worked my last nerve. I left Canon last year.

It's all a revolving cycle ... one's on top one year, the other the next. and we all get to pay the freight. No more. Done. Finished.

[dseelig]

HI John
I have both an was thinking of selling my 1ds mk111 and then I got an assigment of shooting bicycle riding in Portland. Quite simply for any time of action you need the responsiveness of the 1d series. If you are a landscape guy a few protraits slow paced work then get a 5d mk11. But remember any camera even a 1d series if you shoot in bad weather buy some aquatec raincovers. Since yo use when moeny is on table get a 1ds mk 111. David www.davidseelig.com

[robmac]

Given the rate of issues with the 5D2 and the fact you shoot for coin, I'd err towards a 1Ds3 if you want to stick Canon. Buy a used one, wait and see if they get the bugs out of the Mod 2 and if it still appeals to you then, step up.

Since you (IIRC) shoot some alt glass, you may also want to check a NEW issue -- see Alternate Forum on FM and Lloyd's 5D2 review update. Appears that using alternate lenses with un-chipped adapters on the 5D2 in LV causes heavy vignetting on the bottom of the frame. Not an issue with 1Ds3 and earlier LV models. Very similar to mirror 'brush' on a rear element shroud.

Appears to be (stress this) a firmware-driven timing shutter/sensor-clearing/mirror return 'glitch'. I put 'glitch' as such because from Canon's viewpoint an issue with Leica or CZ lenses isn't a 'glitch'.

No need to repeat all the details here - check the sites mentioned. Worst case you'll need to chip any adapters (contact Rudolph at happypagehk on ebay) you may have.

Me - my 1DS2 replacement is going to be a Nikon.

[atufte]

Originally Posted by robmac

Given the rate of issues with the 5D2 and the fact you shoot for coin, I'd err towards a 1Ds3 if you want to stick Canon. Buy a used one, wait and see if they get the bugs out of the Mod 2 and if it still appeals to you then, step up.

Since you (IIRC) shoot some alt glass, you may also want to check a NEW issue -- see Alternate Forum on FM and Lloyd's 5D2 review update. Appears that using alternate lenses with un-chipped adapters on the 5D2 in LV causes heavy vignetting on the bottom of the frame. Not an issue with 1Ds3 and earlier LV models. Very similar to mirror 'brush' on a rear element shroud.

Appears to be (stress this) a firmware-driven timing shutter/sensor-clearing/mirror return 'glitch'. I put 'glitch' as such because from Canon's viewpoint an issue with Leica or CZ lenses isn't a 'glitch'.

No need to repeat all the details here - check the sites mentioned. Worst case you'll need to chip any adapters (contact Rudolph at happypagehk on ebay) you may have.

Me - my 1DS2 replacement is going to be a Nikon.

I have no issues with CZ ZE lenses or ZF/Leica/Nikkor for that matter on the 5D2...

[robmac]

Any chipped lens is fine (EoS, ZE). One thing folks are trying to pin down is if it is a 5D2-wide issue with unchipped lenses (remember using LV only) or specific, like the mirror clearance variations, to individual bodies. Take a read of this thread - interesting issue.

If you're not seeing any vignetting (bottom of frame only) using LiveView with unchipped lenses, it would imply it's body-specific.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/735258

[bensonga]

Originally Posted by johnastovall

I'm needing to start serious planing for a second Canon dSLR and move my 5D to a back up role.

Same thoughts here....except in my case, I decided to move the 40D to backup role (or when the 1.6x factor is a plus) and just bought a new 5D with the 24-105 f4 L-series lens. I have a couple of friends with 5Ds and they all love 'em. Package price of the 5D and 24-105 was so good, I couldn't pass it up (especially since I wanted to add the 24-105 to my arsenal anyways).

Why not the 5D MkII? Too many possible problems and uncertainty at this point for me to pay full tilt on this one and I realistically, I just couldn't spring for the 1Ds MkIII.

Gary
Alaska

[ptomsu]

Originally Posted by bensonga

Same thoughts here....except in my case, I decided to move the 40D to backup role (or when the 1.6x factor is a plus) and just bought a new 5D with the 24-105 f4 L-series lens. I have a couple of friends with 5Ds and they all love 'em. Package price of the 5D and 24-105 was so good, I couldn't pass it up (especially since I wanted to add the 24-105 to my arsenal anyways).

Why not the 5D MkII? Too many possible problems and uncertainty at this point for me to pay full tilt on this one and I realistically, I just couldn't spring for the 1Ds MkIII.

Gary
Alaska

If, what , could, should, perhaps, ?????????????

Man, why wait and go for a 5D instead of 5D2? The 5D2 I bought works just fine. But one can always wait till it is too late

[edwardkaraa]

Originally Posted by atufte

They are all good, but my favorite is Zeiss Planar 50/2 ZE (love the fact that it has a built in aperture control and no ring, so you can change aperture from the camera, and works as good as any EF lens, just with manual focus of course, you do not need to stop down either..) I'm a 50mm guy...
..

How did you get a 50/2 ZE? I want one too

[atufte]

Originally Posted by edwardkaraa

How did you get a 50/2 ZE? I want one too

So buy one, you wont regret it :-)

http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/Sal...&fcl=3&frpp=50

[bensonga]

Originally Posted by ptomsu

Man, why wait and go for a 5D instead of 5D2? The 5D2 I bought works just fine. But one can always wait till it is too late

I think I explained (briefly) why I opted for the 5D instead of the 5DII. I tend to buy items later in their product cycle when bugs have been worked out and prices have come down. The early adopter premium (both in cost and possible headaches) is usually not worth it for me.

I'm glad your 5DII is working well, others haven't been so lucky. If I decide I'd like to have a 5DII, I'll wait until the quality and reliability is more consistent. Like Marc Williams....I'm not willing to do the quality testing for Canon that that they should have done more thoroughly before releasing the product.

It will only be "too late" for a 5DII as you say, when the 5DIII arrives and no 5DIIs are in the sales pipeline any longer. I can wait.

Gary
Alaska

[ptomsu]

Originally Posted by bensonga

I think I explained (briefly) why I opted for the 5D instead of the 5DII. I tend to buy items later in their product cycle when bugs have been worked out and prices have come down. The early adopter premium (both in cost and possible headaches) is usually not worth it for me.

I'm glad your 5DII is working well, others haven't been so lucky. If I decide I'd like to have a 5DII, I'll wait until the quality and reliability is more consistent. Like Marc Williams....I'm not willing to do the quality testing for Canon that that they should have done more thoroughly before releasing the product.

It will only be "too late" for a 5DII as you say, when the 5DIII arrives and no 5DIIs are in the sales pipeline any longer. I can wait.

Gary
Alaska

Well,

while I have to say, that I also tend to sit out the first and most frustating flaws of a camera, I found that this period is usually over after the first series has been sold.

The 5D2 was first available from end of October 2008, I bought mine in February 2009, just when a new production series arrived after the Xmas business. And this was just perfect, as I can assure you.

So your strategy of always waiting till the end of the lifecycle of a product before you buy is not the full truth although it definitely helps to save lots of money

[bensonga]

Originally Posted by ptomsu

Well,
So your strategy of always waiting till the end of the lifecycle of a product before you buy

Actually, if you read what I wrote a little more carefully, it was "TEND TO buy items LATER in their product cycle". There is a difference in language and in fact between "tend to" vs "always" and "later" vs "end".

is not the full truth

I don't think I suggested that my views represented the "full truth" about anything. What I did say was "Too many POSSIBLE problems and UNCERTAINLY" for ME to pay full price on a 5DII.

If Canon has sorted out the reported problems with the 5DII in just a few months....that's outstanding.....every prospective buyer will be be relieved. Some of us might wait a bit longer before coming to that conclusion.

although it definitely helps to save lots of money

It most certainly does......in these times, it's a good thing. In fact, I got the 5D body, vertical grip and the 24-105 f4L lens for less than the price of a 5DII body alone. It was the right deal and decision for me.

Gary
Alaska

[ptomsu]

@ Gary,

just see my private email.

No need to discuss this further in public.

[ptomsu]

Originally Posted by bensonga

Actually, if you read what I wrote a little more carefully, it was "TEND TO buy items LATER in their product cycle". There is a difference in language and in fact between "tend to" vs "always" and "later" vs "end".



I don't think I suggested that my views represented the "full truth" about anything. What I did say was "Too many POSSIBLE problems and UNCERTAINLY" for ME to pay full price on a 5DII.

If Canon has sorted out the reported problems with the 5DII in just a few months....that's outstanding.....every prospective buyer will be be relieved. Some of us might wait a bit longer before coming to that conclusion.



It most certainly does......in these times, it's a good thing. In fact, I got the 5D body, vertical grip and the 24-105 f4L lens for less than the price of a 5DII body alone. It was the right deal and decision for me.

Gary
Alaska

See my private email.

Thanks.

[bensonga]

Originally Posted by ptomsu

See my private email.
Thanks.

PM sent....glad we can move on now.

Gary

[Jack Flesher]

Hi John:

Here's my simple .02...

I went with the 1Ds3 because somebody tossed a relatively low mileage one at me for a hard-to-pass-up price. However, in addition you get:

1) Improved AF -- this body AF's in light I cannot see in.

2) Faster frame-rate of 6 FPS -- not a huge deal unless you shoot sports, which I will be doing with this camera.

3) Dual cards -- doesn't sound like a huge deal, but I set it up so the RAWs go to the CF and then send small jpegs to the SD -- so at any given shoot I have a complete set of ready-to-email images for family and friends. (Heck, I even use these sm jpegs for posting my FS items!)

4) Extended battery life. I have not run it fully yet, but a friend told me he regularly gets over 2000 frames on a single battery, as opposed to about 800 on the 5D2.

5) Finally, the weather-proofing and durability of the pro body. Again, maybe doesn't sound like much, but I have fallen with my cameras in the past, and the pro bodies have always come up unscathed. Also using them in inclement weather there's just less to worry about.

6) Re the weight, this 1 series has a much lighter battery than the previous models and does not feel that heavy -- I would guess that if you added the vertical grip thingy to the 5D2, they'd be virtually identical in size and weight.

So, I am not saying the pro body is worth the added cost for everybody, but at decent used prices, the delta made sense to me for the added bennies.

Again, my .02 only and YMMV,

[johnastovall]

Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

Hi John:

Here's my simple .02...

I went with the 1Ds3 because somebody tossed a relatively low mileage one at me for a hard-to-pass-up price. However, in addition you get:

1) Improved AF -- this body AF's in light I cannot see in.

2) Faster frame-rate of 6 FPS -- not a huge deal unless you shoot sports, which I will be doing with this camera.

3) Dual cards -- doesn't sound like a huge deal, but I set it up so the RAWs go to the CF and then send small jpegs to the SD -- so at any given shoot I have a complete set of ready-to-email images for family and friends. (Heck, I even use these sm jpegs for posting my FS items!)

4) Extended battery life. I have not run it fully yet, but a friend told me he regularly gets over 2000 frames on a single battery, as opposed to about 800 on the 5D2.

5) Finally, the weather-proofing and durability of the pro body. Again, maybe doesn't sound like much, but I have fallen with my cameras in the past, and the pro bodies have always come up unscathed. Also using them in inclement weather there's just less to worry about.

6) Re the weight, this 1 series has a much lighter battery than the previous models and does not feel that heavy -- I would guess that if you added the vertical grip thingy to the 5D2, they'd be virtually identical in size and weight.

So, I am not saying the pro body is worth the added cost for everybody, but at decent used prices, the delta made sense to me for the added bennies.

Again, my .02 only and YMMV,

This is very much my current thinking and finding I can re-furbs makes for a very attractive package.

[mark1958]

I own both and I agree with Jack in terms of the 1DsmkIII vs 5DII. I have not compared the batteries in terms of shots per charge but both are quite good. The 5DII is much better in terms of the 5D. I did some bird shooting this weekend and the 1dsmkIII was not a machine gun in terms of fps and buffer (compared to the 1D non-S series cameras) but the AF was quick-- much better than the 5D. Other than fast moving objects, I would say in terms of IQ there is not that much of a difference until one gets to the very high isos. I prefer the size and weight of the 5D. I use without the grip. WHile the true weight and size may not seem that different, if you are packing a small bag, sometimes it can make a substantial difference.

[Professional]

I don't want to comment, but i have 5D and 1DsII, to my choice i was using my 1DsII more than my 5D, 5D was amazing and still, but i love my 1-series bodies, and the IQ always going for 5D series but in detailed deep comparison the color rendition and the details are winners with 1Ds series over 5D even if that 5D is cleaner in higher ISO, even i read somewhere that with RAW the high ISO between both are not so much significantly different, maybe with JPEG it is better on 5D2, but for something else 5D2 is great but not as much pro as 1-series, the AF on all my 1series cameras are flawless, never say never, even in low light, perfect, 5D/5D2 can be great in AF but not in 1series class, and many saying to get that perfect AF is better for me than 5D2 high ISO quality but OOF because of AF is not matching 1series.
Many Pro photographers who are using medium formats don't care much about high ISO, and even with my 1D MarkIII ISO6400 i am so happy, don't want to buy 5D2 because of its winner high ISO only and i didn't.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Professional

... but in detailed deep comparison the color rendition and the details are winners with 1Ds series over 5D even if that 5D is cleaner in higher ISO...

This is exactly what I'm hearing about the difference between the 1Dsiii and 5Dii. It sounds like Canon used a weaker CFA on the 5Dii, which in turn allows better high ISO performance.

[Mark K]

This is what made my delay. Tried 5DII and it is faster than my 5D but much slower than 50D. It makes my direction to A900. If there is anything for birding, the upcoming 1D IV will be my choice

[Bob]

I picked up a 5dII as a backup or a 1DsIV which I will wait for :-)
-bob

[ptomsu]

I actually bought my 5D2 out of the same reason - to have a high res DSLR till the 1DS4 hits the market

No kidding - I am using the 5D2 meanwhile for what I call "Low End MF". And it produces stunning results. And you can even print easily till 40x30. With very good quality! So the point is, I am using it till I can decide on which MF system to go with and hold my money as long as possible, as we all know prices in that area are decreasing all the time

And I also decided for the 5D2 against the D3X (although I come from Nikon including D3) because I like the IQ of the Canon much more. For me the results are truly stunning especially in landscape photography.

So the 5D2 and some good L glass is now my Low End MF system - GREAT

[Let_Biogons_Be_Biogons]

Originally Posted by atufte

They are all good, but my favorite is Zeiss Planar 50/2 ZE (love the fact that it has a built in aperture control and no ring, so you can change aperture from the camera, and works as good as any EF lens, just with manual focus of course, you do not need to stop down either..) I'm a 50mm guy...

That's one of the worst aspects of the Canons. I like to control the aperture on the lens. It's a shame they had to get rid of the aperture ring on the ZE's.

[atufte]

Originally Posted by Let_Biogons_Be_Biogons

That's one of the worst aspects of the Canons. I like to control the aperture on the lens. It's a shame they had to get rid of the aperture ring on the ZE's.

I agree, but only if it would work without having to stop down the lens, like every lens used with an adapter, it's not easy to manual focus at f/8 with this kind of system, but with the ZE built in aperture control it shows the lens at f/1.4 even if it is set at f/16, that why i like it.... but i would also prefer an aperture ring on the lens, if.... like i said in the text over:-)

I don't know how the ZF lenses works, but you probably have to stop down for focus with this lenses, or correct me if i'm wrong...? (at least with an F - EOS adapter, on a Canon system...)

[ChrisDauer]

Originally Posted by ptomsu

No kidding - I am using the 5D2 meanwhile for what I call "Low End MF". And it produces stunning results.
<SNIP>
So the 5D2 and some good L glass is now my Low End MF system - GREAT

Yeah, I think I'm leaning this direction myself. I've had no issues with the 5D2. So for the hordes of people complaining about it breaking or failing or whatever, I guess I consider myself very fortunate. Autofocus in the dark is relatively slow, but it's better than what I can do, so no complaints.

I'm very happy w/ the IQ and everything else; so horses for courses as they say.

John, I don't think you'll be unhappy w/ either choice. So in my mind it comes down to autofocus, weathersealing, duel slots, weight, cost.

All the best!
-C