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T/S on G1 a test shot

V

Vivek

Guest
I have been hesitant, very hesitant to try T/S lenses on the G1 as the focusing (with a T/S) lens is very very difficult.

Anyway, I tried one today (a 24mm experimental T/S lens). Here is a sample (this is a crop).



I can confirm again that IME, a Nikon D40x works better when it comes to focusing and getting the shot as I want it. This sample shot is a fluke.
 

woodmancy

Subscriber Member
I have been hesitant, very hesitant to try T/S lenses on the G1 as the focusing (with a T/S) lens is very very difficult.

Anyway, I tried one today (a 24mm experimental T/S lens). Here is a sample (this is a crop).
I can confirm again that IME, a Nikon D40x works better when it comes to focusing and getting the shot as I want it. This sample shot is a fluke.
I don't know about flukes :salute:, but that's the kind of street image that most of us strive for. I bet CB shot a lot of flukes too!
What's a T/S lens?

Keith
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Thanks, Keith.

T/S = Tilt/Shift (as it is set-up now, it has more tilt and less shift but it is correctable in the post).
 

woodmancy

Subscriber Member
Thanks, Keith.

T/S = Tilt/Shift (as it is set-up now, it has more tilt and less shift but it is correctable in the post).
I should know that - there is a fair amount of discussion on T/S in the forum - but you are using it in a non-static situation. It works well because of the unusual focus, but can use it for spontaneous shots? Should I get one:bugeyes:?

Keith
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Keith, It is difficult to use as in the shot shown ( I would have liked to have had the whole bicycle in focus- missed it).

Here is one (a snap that I am very satisfied with) made with a 28mm T/S on a D300.

 

Diane B

New member
There is a quite good chart for Canon T/S that may be helpful--at least it gives a good jumping off place to start for tilt/swing--primarily for the 24, 45 (which I have) and 90.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=18434382

Shift, of course, is visual but with the 5D I use a grid screen which is helpful. If one is going to do selective focus, then I found that it helped to experiment with aperture, degree of tilt/swing (which basically is the opposite of what one normally does for increased perception of DOF)--the wedge of focus increases with stopping down the aperture--and focus is visual--MF. With the Canons you can rotate that 'wedge' too. Its a really fun lens if you like to take your time, have a reasonable VF--and have worked with it enough to know how to control it. I always liked Mark Tucker's control of selective focus --I was going to link to some of his Chilean, German or Jack Daniels Distillery photos, but it seems that he's changed his site yet again.

I would love to be able to use my T/S with the G1 MF assist--but there is no EF to m4/3rds mount. Should be WAY better than either using the 5D VF or an anglefinder C. Vivek--you say this is experimental--what lens did you use to create it? Nice.

Diane
 
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woodmancy

Subscriber Member
Keith, It is difficult to use as in the shot shown ( I would have liked to have had the whole bicycle in focus- missed it).
I'm so glad you missed it - it brings the attention right onto the cyclist. I love this picture. Let's see it in B & W :clap:

Keith
 

scho

Well-known member
There is a quite good chart for Canon T/S that may be helpful--at least it gives a good jumping off place to start for tilt/swing--primarily for the 24, 45 (which I have) and 90.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=18434382

Shift, of course, is visual but with the 5D I use a grid screen which is helpful. If one is going to do selective focus, then I found that it helped to experiment with aperture, degree of tilt/swing (which basically is the opposite of what one normally does for increased perception of DOF)--the wedge of focus increases with stopping down the aperture--and focus is visual--MF. With the Canons you can rotate that 'wedge' too. Its a really fun lens if you like to take your time, have a reasonable VF--and have worked with it enough to know how to control it. I always liked Mark Tucker's control of selective focus --I was going to link to some of his Chilean, German or Jack Daniels Distillery photos, but it seems that he's changed his site yet again.

I would love to be able to use my T/S with the G1 MF assist--but there is no EF to m4/3rds mount. Should be WAY better than either using the 5D VF or an anglefinder C. Vivek--you say this is experimental--what lens did you use to create it? Nice.

Diane
Diane, There is a Canon EOS to m4/3 adapter, but no aperture control so you can only shoot wide open. Probably not very useful for what you want to do with the T/S lens.

Carl
 

pellicle

New member
Carl

Diane, There is a Canon EOS to m4/3 adapter, but no aperture control so you can only shoot wide open. Probably not very useful for what you want to do with the T/S lens.

Carl
the only problem with that is unless you use the older TS 35 you have no iris control so its wide open or wide open.


If the adjustments are well thought out (and you get the hang of it) I found that using my TS-E lenses on my EOS camera was intuitive and fast.

I used them without a tripod many many times. The best part is that noone looks at the image and goes "ohh ... yeah, gosh that's TS".

but then I like my tools to be subtle.

Would you pick the tilt in this?



looking at the handrail to the right its blury, but to the left it goes to infinity. If the post behind the rail was not blury then the rail corner would not stand out as much. On a print it really jumps off the paper.

to me, not having tilt control on a lens is like having a fixed focus camera. If you never knew you could control the focus you'd probably think it was great and not a limitation (think box brownie).

actually not everyone seems to know how to use focus anyway. Perhaps thats the appeal of compact small sensor digital?
 

pellicle

New member
I thought I'd do a quickie with my "tilt adaptor" system for my G1



using this "rough" adaptor (made from a bicycle tube)



everything was hand held and works fast ... (ohh shot is f2.8)
 

pellicle

New member
I have been hesitant, very hesitant to try T/S lenses on the G1 as the focusing (with a T/S) lens is very very difficult.
pah .. takes a little practice is all ... most people think focusing is really really difficult (if they've only ever used AF cameras of point n shoot).

once you think how its working its easier :)
 

pellicle

New member
Hi Vivek

I have been hesitant, very hesitant to try T/S lenses on the G1 as the focusing (with a T/S) lens is very very difficult.
...
This sample shot is a fluke.
well, fluke or not its a nice feeling shot :) It inspired me to take my camera along on a walk with my wife through the local forest (and she did say it was a slow walk too ; - )

I took my munged up adaptor (which is hard to work with as it doesn't have enough flexibility without letting light in or pressing my face with the camera too hard) and got this one that I liked



I'm also interested to know how are you doing your adaptor too ...
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Keith, Here is one in B&W- has the bicycle (or the front wheel) in focus as well. :)



an easy kitchen shot (1/8s handheld, there was shake).



Pellicle, I use several T/S lenses. Though I do not have a whole lot of experience (~2 years), I do know how to work them. It is a breeze for static subjects.

Anyway, what I wanted share here was that the tiny sensor in m4/3rds (even compared to the APS-C of Nikon) makes it really very difficult since even minuscule movement brings about a very dramatic effect.
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
Diane, There is a Canon EOS to m4/3 adapter, but no aperture control so you can only shoot wide open. Probably not very useful for what you want to do with the T/S lens.

Carl
Canon also made a 35mm T/S in the FD mount which would allow for manual aperture control.

Given that FD mount lenses are cheaper than dirt, it could be a good way to go. Olympus all so made a manual T/S which Sean Reid writes about in his Reid Reports.
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
Either Reid did not write correctly or you misread. Olympus never made a T/S lens. Only shift lenses.
I miss remembered the article. You are correct. He compared the Zuiko 25 and 35 shift lenses to the Canon 25 T/S.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Sorry to nitpick, John. There is a Zuiko 24mm shift lens and there are Canon 24mm TS-E lenses (2 versions).

Zuiko 24mm http://zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~rwesson/esif/om-sif/lensgroup/manuals/24mm_f35_shift.pdf

Many say (I do not have personal experience) that this is the best 24mm perspective control lens for 35mm format.

I would love to get hold of one.

BTW, with the new PC-E lenses from Nikon (http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Camera-Lenses/Manual/Perspective-Control.page) it is possible to control the aperture manually (something for the owners to figure out).
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
Nitpicking is good. It improves the quality of discourse; correct facts are important.

I'm a nitpicker to.
 

pellicle

New member
HiYa

Pellicle, I use several T/S lenses. Though I do not have a whole lot of experience (~2 years), I do know how to work them. It is a breeze for static subjects.

Anyway, what I wanted share here was that the tiny sensor in m4/3rds (even compared to the APS-C of Nikon) makes it really very difficult since even minuscule movement brings about a very dramatic effect.
yeah ... I considered it a fair bit before clicking submit because I didn't want to seem like I was being a nitpickin pain in the a55.

I understand what you mean about the diffuculties of engaging and using it (I often sigh when using my 4x5 camera as it has base tilt and center swings. I really much prefer center everything but then I'd have to carry a Sinar and my Toho is under 2Kg with a lens so I'm willing to accept compromise).

I think Canon nailed their tilt mechanism very well and the geared adjustment really really helped make it easier to use (not to mention it was center tilt). Imagine trying to focus with a push pull arrangement and no geared helical thread.

At the risk of "teaching granma to suck eggs" I find that a "predictive zone" approach works well for using tilt. Just like I used prefocus on a spot and wait till the race car got there when I had manual focus lenses I used the same principle when using the TS lenses on my 35mm EOS.

I'll get motivated this week and put a 'tilt tutorial' on my blog with some video. I'll try to record from the ground glass of my 4x5 with my digicam as I don't have a G1H to make video with ;-)
 

pellicle

New member
Hi

Canon also made a 35mm T/S in the FD mount which would allow for manual aperture control.

Given that FD mount lenses are cheaper than dirt,
I guess you've not followed any auctions or checked out KEH on that item. The TS 35 is still a $500 item ... unless that's "cheaper than dirt" for your budget.

I don't really find 35mm a useful focal length for Tilt but on a 4/3rds camera its a 70mm angle of view so it might be nicer. Still that's a real dear 70mm lens
 
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