While I (patiently) wait for my NEX-7...

[etrigan63]

I have been acquiring accessories for the beastie as I can. I already picked up a couple of lens adapters to allow me to re-task some lenses.

A Rainbow M-to-NEX adapter to use with my CV 35mm Nokton 1.4 MC

A Fotodiox OM-to-Nex to use with a Zuiko 50mm f/1.4 I snagged off of eBay for $50.

A Gordy strap

What I am missing:

Leather half-case. Sony offers a full case but I only want the half-case and Luigi hasn't committed to NEX-7 yet. I know that no one will announce product until it ships, but does anyone have any suggestions?

[douglasf13]

Don't know if Ciesta has a 7 half case, yet, but they make the best nex cases, IMO.

[etrigan63]

Thanks Doug. Do you have a link to Ciesta?

[Michiel Schierbeek]

http://ciesta9.com/

[etrigan63]

Thanks Michiel!

[etrigan63]

Ciesta responded quickly (got to love time zone differences between here and Korea). They said that they expect the NEX-7 in january 2012 and that they would have a case ready for it in Feb 2012.

[jlm]

i'm seeing pricing all over the place for M to nex adapters from fotodiox and raninbow, novoflex, ranging from $19 to $300 (amazon)

what is the one to get?

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by jlm

i'm seeing pricing all over the place for M to nex adapters from fotodiox and raninbow, novoflex, ranging from $19 to $300 (amazon)

what is the one to get?

John, I would suggest none of them and an m4/3rds to NEX adapter instead. Use one of your own M to m4/3rds adapter.

[etrigan63]

There's a business opportunity here John. If you contact Sony, they will give you the specs to the E-mount for free. You could build your own M-to-NEX adapter. Novoflex adapters are extremely well-built, but cost the aforementioned $300. The others are a crapshoot vis-a-vis quality. YMMV.

I just pinged my contact at Sony to see where the specs can be located. I will send you the info if I get it.

[Paratom]

I think the Nex-Leica Adapters cost around 100 Euro+VAT.
How would that translate into 300$?

I recently bought a chinese cheap adapter for using a Zeiss lens on the S2 and the adapter has quite a bit of play. However in this case it was under 100EUro vs over 500€.

I dont know if I would want to save 50€ for a Nex adapter and risk that it might not be accurate.

[etrigan63]

The Novoflex adapter sells for $269.99 USD at B&H.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...r_Leica_M.html

[Ben Rubinstein]

Originally Posted by t_streng

I think the Nex-Leica Adapters cost around 100 Euro+VAT.
How would that translate into 300$?

I recently bought a chinese cheap adapter for using a Zeiss lens on the S2 and the adapter has quite a bit of play. However in this case it was under 100EUro vs over 500€.

I dont know if I would want to save 50€ for a Nex adapter and risk that it might not be accurate.

Novoflex are German if I'm not mistaken, it could account for at least some of the price difference to you?

[jlm]

wheels are turning... my 4/3's adapter will already accept the M bayonet lenses so i only need to make the sony compatible half

[segedi]

Here's what I bought.

Mount is snug, no play at all on the 5n I tried it on. And it has a the big advantage of allowing for closer focusing when you need it.

[douglasf13]

The Hawks adapter linked above is the only one to get, IMO. I own 2 Voigtlanders, 1 Metabones, one cheapie, and the Hawks, and the Hawks is better at infinity focus than all the others, and it gives all of your M lenses SLR-like minimum focusing distances. It's probably my favorite NEX accessory.

[Paratom]

Originally Posted by segedi

Here's what I bought.

Mount is snug, no play at all on the 5n I tried it on. And it has a the big advantage of allowing for closer focusing when you need it.

The closer focusing is a good argument.
Anybody wants my Novoflex for one of those

[hot]

I am inpatient! My dealer returns 50% of price if it is snowing on Dec.24th!

Sony, hurry up!

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by segedi

Here's what I bought.

Mount is snug, no play at all on the 5n I tried it on. And it has a the big advantage of allowing for closer focusing when you need it.

I forgot about that! At that price and such versatility

I wonder why Novoflex, Voightlander and others bother selling the plain vanilla adapters for such high prices.

[PeterA]

I have 'caved in' and bought a Nex 5N yesterdday with an EVF finder - giving myself time to familiarise myself with the workings of thes enew fangled high tech small things..

Mucking around observations are that I am very impresed with colour and resolution.

I ordered and recieved a Novflex Nex to Nikon adaptor and a Voigtlander M to Nex adaptor this morning and have a Novaflex Nex to R adaptor on back order - looking foward to seeing how the lenses work on this littel powerhouse of a device.

It will take me some time to get used to the operaiton of this - as there are a lot of menus etc to learn - the interface is very 'clunky' on first blush - relative to the basic stuff I am used to - like MF or Alpa.

Basically all I want this camera to do is allow me to make panoramas, easy quick happy snaps and the occasional short movie - i liekthe small form factor. Looking at the Nex 7 reviews etc - it loks like the interface is better - but I am not sure I really want the 24 megapixels.

These cameras deliver very good bang for buck that for sure.

[Paratom]

Originally Posted by Vivek

I forgot about that! At that price and such versatility

I wonder why Novoflex, Voightlander and others bother selling the plain vanilla adapters for such high prices.

I guess because manufacturing in Germany is more expensive than in China.

[Vivek]

That (higher costs) might apply to Novoflex but not to Voigtlander, despite its German name.

The Hawk adapter is made in Taiwan. Quality of all Hawk products are equal or better than the over priced and in some cases, less versatile variety.

Interestingly, many state of the art precision engineering tools are employed in by (some) in PRC (Rongjin, "Jinfinances", for example) and Hawk in Taiwan. Not a big surprise since PRC also exports many of the cutting edge tools.

In addition to the tools used, I am just amazed at the personal attention to the details/craftmanship of people like Hawk Peng.

[Paratom]

Originally Posted by Vivek

That (higher costs) might apply to Novoflex but not to Voigtlander, despite its German name.

The Hawk adapter is made in Taiwan. Quality of all Hawk products are equal or better than the over priced and in some cases, less versatile variety.

Interestingly, many state of the art precision engineering tools are employed in by (some) in PRC (Rongjin, "Jinfinances", for example) and Hawk in Taiwan. Not a big surprise since PRC also exports many of the cutting edge tools.

In addition to the tools used, I am just amazed at the personal attention to the details/craftmanship of people like Hawk Peng.

I dont say that Hwak Pen products are any worse.

I meant that when buying technical products from China for example there is a higher chance that the quality is not so good. I bet there are some very good companies, but there are also some really bad garage companies in China.
I run a technical company and we also sell machines in China and I have seen several production areas in China. There is a reason that even many Chinese companies buy their machines and technical equipment in Germany.

[Vivek]

My point is that Novoflex or whatever if they still make the same stuff they made 60 years ago when they established their names without being innovative and competitive (price wise) it is a problem. They are not the only quality source for such adapters anymore and the technology we are talking about isn't exactly rocket science.

[georgl]

I have bought a Chinese adapter R->NEX because I was in a hurry - it's crap, money wasted.
A Friend bought a R->EOS - fell apart while being stuck on my Apo 180! After a few weeks!
I bought a Novoflex M->Nex and a R->EOS - works perfectly fine with perfect fit and finish and I can sell it any day for the acquisition price.

Neither China nor Taiwan trains Zerspanungstechniker (craftsmen specifically trained for handling machining operations - takes 42 months) - Novoflex does.
I'm not sure if the quite simple turning processes involved in making an adapter couldn't be handled by untrained, overworked and underpaid workers in Taiwan or China with more strict QC (throwing the majority away...) either or couldn't be handled in Germany with higher efficiency for lower prices but many no-name adapters are crap, the Novoflex are not. Personally, I wouldn't risk saving a few $ instead a piece of quality-craftsmanship which lasts decades.

P.S. My old University bought Taiwanese machining centers two years ago because they were offering generous rebate - the German competitors did not. Now the machines fall apart and 500,000$ of tax payer money were wasted!

[Paratom]

Originally Posted by Vivek

My point is that Novoflex or whatever if they still make the same stuff they made 60 years ago when they established their names without being innovative and competitive (price wise) it is a problem. They are not the only quality source for such adapters anymore and the technology we are talking about isn't exactly rocket science.

Ok, lets say it like this: if you buy from an unknown source in China there is a higher risk that the quality is not that great. (my experience with a Kipon adapter for Hassy to S2 .

there might be some sources in China which deliver very good quality-if you know that then you are fine.

If you buy from a know source in germany with good reputation than the risk of getting bad quality is near zero.

production cost (=> prices) in China are much lower than those in Germany, we better do not start to discuss all the reasons.

[jonoslack]

Originally Posted by t_streng

Ok, lets say it like this: if you buy from an unknown source in China there is a higher risk that the quality is not that great. (my experience with a Kipon adapter for Hassy to S2 .

there might be some sources in China which deliver very good quality-if you know that then you are fine.

If you buy from a know source in germany with good reputation than the risk of getting bad quality is near zero.

production cost (=> prices) in China are much lower than those in Germany, we better do not start to discuss all the reasons.

I think you nailed it Tom
The Hawks adapter I got seems very good (smooth helicoid, nicely finished and focuses perfectly to infinity). . . . . and the unnamed R to E mount adapter is actually also very good £19 only - as you know, I only got it because a Novoflex adapter wasn't available. But the Kipon adapter I had for NEX to Contax G was disappointing, poorly designed and rather graunchy,

You pays your money and you takes your chance!

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by t_streng

Ok, lets say it like this: if you buy from an unknown source in China there is a higher risk that the quality is not that great.

Novoflex, IIRC, had their own share of problems when they came up with their m4/3rds to M adapter.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with one source from outside of Germany.

[kanzlr]

afaik Novoflex uses steel springs and screws and should work perfectly for quite a while

[hot]

Hehe, I'm using 15 (!) Chinese adapters .. low price ... 1a quality ... no German searobbery prices.
All are full okay!

[jlm]

novoflex does not use steel springs, they create a "spring" action by extending a bit of the aluminum under the bayonet tab

[Paratom]

ok,I guess anybody needs to buy what he/she trusts most.
one thing for sure: competition is a good thing

[Vivek]

Competition is a good thing but innovation is even better. For someone like Novoflex to be not inventing is disappointing.

One accessory (especially for NEX as such, especially now that Sony has invented EVFs) that someone like Novoflex can look into and do very well is a T/S adapter like that of Mirex (http://www.mirex-adapter.de/tilt_shift_adapter.htm).

[Paratom]

Originally Posted by Vivek

Competition is a good thing but innovation is even better. For someone like Novoflex to be not inventing is disappointing.

One accessory (especially for NEX as such, especially now that Sony has invented EVFs) that someone like Novoflex can look into and do very well is a T/S adapter like that of Mirex (http://www.mirex-adapter.de/tilt_shift_adapter.htm).

I am NOT a Novoflex-employee!!!
But frankly I would NOT call an EVF innovation (maybe 20 years ago) as I also wouldnt call a T/S adapter innovation nor a T/S bellows (http://www.novoflex.com/de/produkte/...ete/balpro-ts/)

I think those companies look into products with a certain demand and no offer from the OEM. But most of those products are not new ideas, but known technology just not offered because the demand is too small for the OEMs to offer such products.

[Vivek]

I did not think you were nor did I imply that you were.

Given the prices from some for a ring or a tube filled with the same air everyone breaths while offering no particular distinction (the cardboard boxes are not even collectible), even very old products appear to be inventions.

FWIW, a cludgy T/S bellows can not be compared to a compact/lightweight T/S adapter like the one from Mirex (AFAIK, no one made such an adapter before Mirex). It calls for quite a bit engineering- of very high standards, I might add.

[Paratom]

Originally Posted by Vivek

I did not think you were nor did I imply that you were.

Given the prices from some for a ring or a tube filled with the same air everyone breaths while offering no particular distinction (the cardboard boxes are not even collectible), even very old products appear to be inventions.

FWIW, a cludgy T/S bellows can not be compared to a compact/lightweight T/S adapter like the one from Mirex (AFAIK, no one made such an adapter before Mirex). It calls for quite a bit engineering- of very high standards, I might add.

The adapter does look interesting for sure.

I think we should not forget how we want to be paid for our work.

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by t_streng

I think we should not forget how we want to be paid for our work.

That was the very reason I brought up Mirex. AFAIK, it is a German company and everything is hand crafted in Deutschland. I have the feeling that they do not charge a whole lot for the cardboard boxes their adapters ship in.

[georgl]

I wouldn't even call Novoflex the upper-end in finemechanics, I don't even like their ballheads (I prefer an "Made in USA" RRS) but they have decent quality-standards and they do innovate on various areas.

novoflex does not use steel springs, they create a "spring" action by extending a bit of the aluminum under the bayonet tab

Usually, Novoflex uses steel-springs while most cheaper adapters use aluminium.

Hehe, I'm using 15 (!) Chinese adapters .. low price ... 1a quality ... no German searobbery prices.

Go to your boss and tell him you would like to work for 1-2$/h (that should give you comparable life quality in Australia to a Chinese worker in China - minus health care) - then we meet again in a year and discuss "searobbery" prices

Most adapters involve coating/anodizing processes. It is dangerous for the people who work with it and it produces highly toxic waste. In Germany, this process is highly regulated. Not a drop of acid may end up in waste or close to any employee. That's why many German suppliers tried to outsource their anodizing to Eastern Europe or China! Problem solved, who cares what happens there as long as I get everything cheap!

Is it ridiculous to discuss such a thing when buying a simple adapter? Well, for a few $ you can get an adapter that fits best, that least-likely is going to fail and you can sell it well after you used it for a decade or two - and you don't even support slave-labour! Isn't that great?

[Agnius]

I have had crappy and decent adapters from China, Taiwan and Japan.

For example, my Fotodiox Pro adapter for Leica R - EOS has been working well. I would advise to avoid adapters that use "slots" instead of springs for tension. Slots get deformed over time and loose their functionality.

I like the idea that I would be supporting union labor, but now I am questioning on who makes the money - in my experience the workers usually are not the beneficaries.

I wanted to buy an adapter from Novoflex web store (Leica R to NEX) for 119,00 Euros and have it shipped to US. After I placed the order I got an email saying that they could not ship it to me and I have to buy it from "local" dealer. Local dealer is charging $212 - extra $52 above already fairly high price. That made me so angry I decided to purchase a less expensive adapter from a japanese brand. At the end I am not even using it as NEX-7 got flooded out and I ended up getting a Ricoh GXR-M.

So why price is so high? Not because of manufacturer costs, but because of merchants gauging the consumers. If we could buy direct, the price would be much much lower.

I would like to see the middle man go the way of the Dodo. They are just no longer necessary.

[jlm]

I expect to have my Nex-M adapter on the market in a few weeks:

direct sales from the mfg (me, made in USA; brooklyn, acutally)
steel springs
black anodized aluminum
target price $200

jm-at-milich-dot-com

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by Agnius

I have had crappy and decent adapters from China, Taiwan and Japan.

For example, my Fotodiox Pro adapter for Leica R - EOS has been working well. I would advise to avoid adapters that use "slots" instead of springs for tension. Slots get deformed over time and loose their functionality.

I like the idea that I would be supporting union labor, but now I am questioning on who makes the money - in my experience the workers usually are not the beneficaries.

I wanted to buy an adapter from Novoflex web store (Leica R to NEX) for 119,00 Euros and have it shipped to US. After I placed the order I got an email saying that they could not ship it to me and I have to buy it from "local" dealer. Local dealer is charging $212 - extra $52 above already fairly high price. That made me so angry I decided to purchase a less expensive adapter from a japanese brand. At the end I am not even using it as NEX-7 got flooded out and I ended up getting a Ricoh GXR-M.

So why price is so high? Not because of manufacturer costs, but because of merchants gauging the consumers. If we could buy direct, the price would be much much lower.

I would like to see the middle man go the way of the Dodo. They are just no longer necessary.

Quite agree!

Many of these old fashioned companies still go through these "dealerships".

I have many experiences. Those who posted thinking that local traineeships and such cost a company like Novoflex a lot more are wrong. A local dealer is guaranteed a certain percentage. That is where the problem comes.

It is just a different economic setup we live in and those following the old fashioned way just have to bear the consequences.

[etrigan63]

Originally Posted by jlm

I expect to have my Nex-M adapter on the market in a few weeks:

direct sales from the mfg (me, made in USA; brooklyn, acutally)
steel springs
black anodized aluminum
target price $200

jm-at-milich-dot-com

Be sure to post images of the product John. I, for one, will be ordering from you after my NEX-7 arrives (I may have to pony up a little extra if my dealer gets in kits before body-only).

Regarding the Novoflex situation here in the US:

Novoflex has a distributor here in the States: HP Marketing (no, not Hewlett Packard). All purchases of Novoflex gear has to be through them. They are the importer for the US. They have to make their cut as well. Hence the price difference. The only way to get it from Novoflex direct is to have an acquaintance in the EU purchase the item in question and mail it to you as a gift.

[Stefan Steib]

As we at Hartblei/HCam are in a similar situation with the US, I can tell you that it is difficult to decide if a customer feels it is worth paying the middleman. Just imagine what happens if there is something to repair or needs guarantee. If you want to send this back to Europe (or as well China)in many cases postage with UPS or even only with a US Post parcel insured will exceed the value of the item you bought. Then there is Customs/Handling, VAT, State taxes and international payments (Paypal charges 6,5 % for payments from the US - for 1000 $ this is 65$ just fees ! ).
Further : how would you know about a product if there is no marketing done ?
Who will send the demos to magazines, test forums and beta customers?
We ship a lot internationally, but everyone needs to decide if he wants to go through this personally. You will probably not see any chinese cheapo makers talk to you here in the forums. The "oldfashioned" way of support costs money. No money means - no support and no conveniance.

It´s up to the customers.
And yes , we also use Novoflex parts, because they work. The Canon EOS mount of our HCam is done by them and it´s a pleasure to mount lenses into it.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan

[Vivek]

Originally Posted by Stefan Steib

As we at Hartblei/HCam are in a similar situation with the US, I can tell you that it is difficult to decide if a customer feels it is worth paying the middleman. Just imagine what happens if there is something to repair or needs guarantee. If you want to send this back to Europe (or as well China)in many cases postage with UPS or even only with a US Post parcel insured will exceed the value of the item you bought. Then there is Customs/Handling, VAT, State taxes and international payments (Paypal charges 6,5 % for payments from the US - for 1000 $ this is 65$ just fees ! ).
Further : how would you know about a product if there is no marketing done ?
Who will send the demos to magazines, test forums and beta customers?
We ship a lot internationally, but everyone needs to decide if he wants to go through this personally. You will probably not see any chinese cheapo makers talk to you here in the forums. The "oldfashioned" way of support costs money. No money means - no support and no conveniance.

It´s up to the customers.
And yes , we also use Novoflex parts, because they work. The Canon EOS mount of our HCam is done by them and it´s a pleasure to mount lenses into it.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan

The focus of discussion (at some point..) was a NEX adapter.

If you look at the history of the adapters for live view cams (starting from the G1), it was the individual enthusiasm and creativeness that brought about them. Still, even now, the number of adapters in terms of sheer variety- be it a c-mount or a Pentax 110 lens to the NEX- it is the folks from PRC and not Novoflex that make them. Would they dare to take up a complex adapter like the NEX to m4/3rds? I doubt it.

The market was already there before Novoflex started selling any adapters. No need for them to "advertise".

Here is another view (check out the video, especially on the adapters):

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...x_7_size.shtml

[etrigan63]

Actually this started with me asking about half-cases for the NEX-7 but drifted over to adapters. There appears to be a dim hope at this point that my NEX-7 will ship by year's end instead of St. Swithen's Day (as my dear 1st grade teacher, Sister Celeste, used to say), and I may get to try out these adapters sooner rather than later.

Cross your appendages, gentlemen.

[Stefan Steib]

Hi Vivek

maybe you should take a look at the history of Novoflex:

http://www.novoflex.com/en/company--contact/chronicle/

They actually started making the Bellows for different cameras with adapters for nearly all available cameras at that time in the fifties ! Probably before someone in china did spell the word camera.

I know all the people of the sales force and also Mr. Hiesinger, the CEO and I can only tell you I wished there would be more companies like this. They are problem solvers, not problem makers, a fast, reliable and stress free cooperation.

This is my personal judgement from over 5 years of work now.
I can´t tell about the US distribution because I don´t know them.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan

PS.: I am as keen as you guys to get my Nex 7. I think this is a milestone of a camera.

[Vivek]

One cardboard box (about 1 cubic feet) I have is full of historic adapters. Almost all are a lot older than I am. Some of my rare Novoflex adapters still have their cardboard boxes. I know their history well.

The current reality is, if I need an adapter or something custom machined to a very high degree of precision at an affordable price and without a big paper trail, the people I can rely upon are in PRC or Taiwan.

I wish it is Germany or better someone near me in the Netherlands!

I think it is wrong for some of you to dismiss anything from PRC or Taiwan as "cheapo". Open your eyes.

[Stefan Steib]

Vivek

you are turning my word into something I did not say. There are some very good precision makers in China and Taiwan, but their products also cost money, maybe less than a Novoflex, but still with handling , shipment and customs/VAT it´s not so far away.

The problem with several of these companies on Ebay is they steal design and construction by 1:1 copies of other peoples products. (example Zykkor, Kood......
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nikon-G-Lens-...item588afcbb43
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kood-Pro-Cano...item588e427fb8
- see their Nikon G-ED to EOS Adapter which is stolen from Novoflex/ 16-9.net).

Regards
Stefan

[hot]

see their Nikon G-ED to EOS Adapter which is stolen from Novoflex/ 16-9.net
Each manufacturer which produces cameras making square pictures has idea stolen from LEICA !!!
Each car manufacturer making cars with round wheels had copied Mercedes!


Novoflex has searobbery prices ....

No, they do not file it by hand from a massive block of pure gold ...

[Stefan Steib]

@ hot

what would you say if someone takes your images, puts his name on it and sells them to your customers for 1/3 of the price you charge ?

BTW. I have bought such an adapter to see if it is working. They fall apart after 1 week of usage.The one that I got has about half a mm play vertically and horizontally on the bajonett, the unlock mechanism will give up and give you fun getting it off again, putting heavy lenses on it will result in axial and vertical "hangover" of the lens. The material used is of the cheapest much too weak quality. So these guys not only rip off the owners of intellectual property, they also rip off the customers. Means you.

I have 2 of the Novoflex adapters and they work perfectly after 1,5 years of usage even with our Hartblei 40mm (which weighs 1,7 kg!).

Greetings from Munich
Stefan

[hot]

Originally Posted by Stefan Steib

@ hot
what would you say if someone takes your images, puts his name on it and sells them to your customers for 1/3 of the price you charge ?

Ouuuuuhhh ... this one will grew rich, ... millionaire!
I sell my photos for € 0.00.

He can sell my 800x450 photos for non-searobbery €0.00/3, hehehe.