Arca Swiss Pico, GFX, and 35BR

[rdeloe]

I don't think this is a Pico issue but more a camera to lens FFD needed issue. I don't believe the Schneider 35XL ( if that is the lens you are referring to ) could ever be used with a mirrorless camera unless the sensor was almost flush with the camera opening.

Please correct me if you are referring to a different lens....

Victor B.

Nope. Same lens.

It's another "perfect is the enemy of good" situation. It's one of my most used lenses on my F-Universalis plus GFX outfit. Officially, it's indicated as can't be used because the rear lens cell goes inside the GFX camera mount, which limits movement to 7.5mm. Some people take the view that if they can't use the whole image circle, then they won't use it at all. I take the view that I need an excellent 35mm lens and I will live with 7.5mm of shift!

Fun fact: I could have the entire image circle were I brave enough to try again to machine down the rear housing for the cell, or to build a new housing. There's no no reason the housing has to be that thick; it was just the cheap-and-easy solution, and it made perfect sense with mirrorless backs. S-K did not anticipate anyone would do what I'm doing. However, if they had gone with a slim and trim solution, mirrorless camera users would be in business.

 

[vieri]

Hey Vieri,

Sorry for the delay in replying, I've had family visiting for the last few days and am just getting a chance to sit down at the computer for a bit.

After talking with SK Grimes, we decided to use the Nikon PK-11 8mm Auto Extension Ring Tube with the Pico 10mm Recessed Copal #0 board to ensure infinity focus can be reached. SK Grimes removed the camera-side mount from the extension tube before attaching it directly to the Pico board.

One thing I hadn’t considered is that when the extension ring is mounted to the Pico, it rotates—and when the lens is attached, it rotates as well. In other words, the lens doesn’t line up in its standard orientation once it’s mounted with this adapter. If I had sent both my lens and the Pico to SK Grimes, they could have aligned everything perfectly.

Even if I had anticipated this alignment issue, I probably wouldn’t have wanted to send my equipment out for a month or more. Fortunately, since I use the Pico for adjustments and keep the lens controls zeroed out, the rotation doesn’t really affect my setup.

Another thing with this combo is that I need to use a key or similar tool to press the lens release button. As a prototype this adapter works well, but I may ask SK Grimes to build a more refined version of it in the future.

Unfortunately I do not have any detailed tests or landscape photography examples, but I'll attach a couple that were made with it.

This image is from a recent interiors shoot and the barrel distortion is apparent, this is before correction… I don't remember how much I shifted exactly, but it wasn't more than 3-5mm. This was not made with the CFV 100C, but the GFX 100ii.
View attachment 223209

This one was made with the adapter and the CFV 100C. The details seem a bit sharper than the above.
View attachment 223210

If you are interested in seeing the raw files so you can evaluate sharpness and CA send me a pm, I'd be happy to share.

Hope this helps!
Warren

Hello Warren,

thank you for your detailed reply, your generosity in sharing information is extremely appreciated, and my apologies for the late reply - we are getting ready for our next 3-month stint on the road, and forum time is unfortunately very limited these days.

That sounds like a very ingenious solution, and the results look pretty great. I might have missed that, but might I ask you how do you set aperture on your lens? I assume you need to set it on a Nikon body (?), and in that case how do you focus? Does it work to focus stopped down, or do you need to set it wide-open on a Nikon body, move it to the Pico, focus, remove it and set aperture on a Nikon body, re-mount it on the Pico and shoot?

Thanks again! Best regards,

Vieri

 

[diggles]

Hello Warren,

thank you for your detailed reply, your generosity in sharing information is extremely appreciated, and my apologies for the late reply - we are getting ready for our next 3-month stint on the road, and forum time is unfortunately very limited these days.

That sounds like a very ingenious solution, and the results look pretty great. I might have missed that, but might I ask you how do you set aperture on your lens? I assume you need to set it on a Nikon body (?), and in that case how do you focus? Does it work to focus stopped down, or do you need to set it wide-open on a Nikon body, move it to the Pico, focus, remove it and set aperture on a Nikon body, re-mount it on the Pico and shoot?

Thanks again! Best regards,

Vieri

That sounds amazing – a 3-month stint on the road sounds like quite the trip!

To answer your question, I just set the aperture to f/11 with my GFX and Fringer adapter and leave it there, so I’m focusing at f/11 as well. So far it’s been working fine, though I haven’t tried focusing in low light yet.

 

[vieri]

That sounds amazing – a 3-month stint on the road sounds like quite the trip!

To answer your question, I just set the aperture to f/11 with my GFX and Fringer adapter and leave it there, so I’m focusing at f/11 as well. So far it’s been working fine, though I haven’t tried focusing in low light yet.

Understood, thank you!

Best regards,

Vieri

 

[Jérôme.E]

Hi Diggles,

Thank you for the very interesting feedbacks about your pico + Arca 24/50.

May you tell me how do you manage rolling shutter issues. That's my biggest concern picking an Hasselblad vs GFX for the Pico.

I'll be very interested in looking at some images (raw) made with this system as you've kindly purposed ;-)

Thanks
Jérôme

 

[diggles]

Hi Diggles,

Thank you for the very interesting feedbacks about your pico + Arca 24/50.

May you tell me how do you manage rolling shutter issues. That's my biggest concern picking an Hasselblad vs GFX for the Pico.

I'll be very interested in looking at some images (raw) made with this system as you've kindly purposed ;-)

Thanks
Jérôme

I typically use the Hasselblad with the Pico for personal projects like landscape photography, and the GFX on its own for client work. I've never had rolling shutter issues with landscapes.

I do occasionally use the Hasselblad with the 35XL on the Pico for paid assignments as well. Here's what I've observed regarding rolling shutter artifacts:

When it's noticeable:

• Moving objects parallel to the camera (like cars) appear compressed—almost like they've been turned into a smart car
• People positioned close and parallel to the camera can look slightly squished or appear to be leaning backward, though this is less pronounced than with vehicles

When it's not an issue:

• Moving objects at an angle to the camera
• Subjects moving toward or away from the camera

When I anticipate rolling shutter might be problematic, I just use my GFX with its mechanical shutter—which is also my primary camera for architecture.

Go ahead and send me a PM with your email and I'd be happy to send you some RAW files.

 

[rdeloe]

Regarding rolling shutter, I use a GFX 100S on my technical cameras, and it's been on ES (electronic shutter) since the first day. I don't use anything else. I can't recall a single instance where ES has been a problem.

The reason, by the way, is that a GFX 100S camera on an Arca-Swiss F-Universalis is almost unusable with any kind of mechanical shutter, including electronic first curtain. The problem is shutter shake. I don't know if it would be a problem on a Pico. The shape of the F-Universalis seems particularly well-suited to generating shutter shake.

 

[diggles]

Here is an example of when electronic shutter works for me with the CFV 100C. The car approaching at an angle and the people are small in the frame. Made with the Pico, CFV 100C, and 35XL


Here's an example where I was parallel to the cars driving by. I was using the CFV 100C with the electronic shutter, then switched to the GFX for the mechanical shutter because the electronic shutter was making the cars look squished—about 2/3 of their normal width. This image was made with the GFX. I was hoping I still had the CFV images to illustrate the difference, but I'd already trashed them. Still thought I'd share since this is a good example of when you need the mechanical shutter.

 

[FloatingLens]

Great examples! Thanks, @diggles.

 

[accwai]

[...] Here's an example where I was parallel to the cars driving by. I was using the CFV 100C with the electronic shutter, then switched to the GFX for the mechanical shutter because the electronic shutter was making the cars look squished—about 2/3 of their normal width. This image was made with the GFX. I was hoping I still had the CFV images to illustrate the difference, but I'd already trashed them. Still thought I'd share since this is a good example of when you need the mechanical shutter.
View attachment 224381

If I'm not mistaking, sensors normally move down the short edge picking up rows along the long edge. So a vertical capture with significantly shorter duration than the sensor's "X-sync speed" would compress object moving fast along the horizontal direction. By this theory, captures in the horizontal orientation would not show such problem right?

[...] The reason, by the way, is that a GFX 100S camera on an Arca-Swiss F-Universalis is almost unusable with any kind of mechanical shutter, including electronic first curtain. [...]

Between-the-lens leaf shutters as well? Correct me if I'm wrong, but neither electronic nor focal plane shutters are capturing the whole frame all at once. So potential for rolling shutter are there in both cases. It's just that "X-sync" speed is much lower in ES so the problem tends to manifest much quicker. The poster didn't explicitly spell out the Big Concern is though, so we don't actually how stringent the poster's requirement really is. In the worst case, Leaf shutter is the only way to eliminate all possibility of rolling shutter effect right?

 

[rdeloe]

If I'm not mistaking, sensors normally move down the short edge picking up rows along the long edge. So a vertical capture with significantly shorter duration than the sensor's "X-sync speed" would compress object moving fast along the horizontal direction. By this theory, captures in the horizontal orientation would not show such problem right?



Between-the-lens leaf shutters as well? Correct me if I'm wrong, but neither electronic nor focal plane shutters are capturing the whole frame all at once. So potential for rolling shutter are there in both cases. It's just that "X-sync" speed is much lower in ES so the problem tends to manifest much quicker. The poster didn't explicitly spell out the Big Concern is though, so we don't actually how stringent the poster's requirement really is. In the worst case, Leaf shutter is the only way to eliminate all possibility of rolling shutter effect right?

That's a good point. I do not have any leaf shutter lenses, so I don't know how the 100S on an F-Universalis would behave with one of those.

I'd be curious to know if the Pico is subject to the problem too. The design is completely different -- much less tall, and looks even more rigid. It might be fine.

 

[diggles]

If I'm not mistaking, sensors normally move down the short edge picking up rows along the long edge. So a vertical capture with significantly shorter duration than the sensor's "X-sync speed" would compress object moving fast along the horizontal direction. By this theory, captures in the horizontal orientation would not show such problem right?

Another good point. Yes, I would expect that too. In horizontal orientation, the compression effect should disappear, but you'd likely see a different distortion instead—fast moving objects like cars might appear to lean backward as they move while the sensor rows are being captured sequentially. I don't have a good practical example of that effect though.