Copal N 0.0 shutter source?

[iczek]

Hi,
Since you all have more experience in the global large format market, I’d like to ask if you know of any global sources that sell new or like-new Copal N 0.0 shutters (possibly after service)?

I am also not sure if the differnet name on it is important. I can see „COPAL 0” or COPAL N 0.0”.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

No source other than old lenses or once in a while ebay.

Copals need to be planar for the best digital lenses, ie 2/100th of a mm between left or right to be mountable on Rodie HR for example. So even if you find copals, they might not be good enough for new lenses. You should never yourself transplant shutters.

 

[f8orbust]

Hi,
Since you all have more experience in the global large format market, I’d like to ask if you know of any global sources that sell new or like-new Copal N 0.0 shutters (possibly after service)?

I am also not sure if the differnet name on it is important. I can see „COPAL 0” or COPAL N 0.0”.

Your best bet is mint condition LF lenses, usually from Japan, for sale on eBay (from reputable sellers).

Then, if you need to shim the lens, get the shims yourself from a place like this, or make some yourself.

The key thing is to not sweat it too much if you swap out a copal yourself. It's a good skill to have - I mean, are you seriously going to send your lens off to S/K or R/S every time it gets a bump? No, of course not.

In my experience lens issues are usually the result of loose groups, dirt, grime, crossed threads, missing shims, overtightening etc. all of which you can sort yourself with a bit of care.

Life's just too short to be fretting over whether or not your lens is within 0.0000000000000000000001mm of spec. At least, for me it is.

 

[iczek]

Life's just too short to be fretting over whether or not your lens is within 0.0000000000000000000001mm of spec. At least, for me it is.

Love this sentence !
Thanks for your comment.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I am sorry, but for last-gen wides you can see if a shutter is not good. This is a 35 HR with a minimally bent copal. Left and right of the 70mm IC (ie no shift on a full frame body).



This is how a minimally misaligned copal looked like on the 35 HR. It looked perfect from the outside and this has nothing to do with shims - one side was different from the other. Turns out shutter was a like 5/100th of a mm bent or so ... as said you couldn't tell. I've seen less bent shutters where you notice it when shifting in the edges.

Some people even don't notice and think that's how it is supposed to look like.

Order a new Rodie with aperture unit and you'll see how a Rodie lens should look like.

In 2025 copal Rodies are a gamble if they're like from the early days of the HR line, ie 2012/13 ... many things can happen in a decade of storage and handling. So what looks like a bargain may end up not being a perfectly in spec lens. Shutter replacement and calibration is like 2k .... for AU. So you buy cheap for 4500 but pay 2k to fix it.

 

[baudolino]

I recently managed to buy new/unused Copal 1 and Copal 3 shutters from Japanese sellers on eBay. Probably your best bet. Make sure that the aperture scale is present and correct for your lens - new scales are hard to obtain / expensive. I haven't figured out how to adjust Copal shutters (can it even be done?) to ensure that the aperture opens correctly for a given lens (i.e. that it just clears the lens opening when set at the lowest aperture value...different lenses will have different pupil size). This is easily done with Prontor Pro shutters - these are also worth a consideration if you can't find a Copal (the Copal 0 equivalent would be the Prontor Professional 01s). Not cheap but you may find one or two available on eBay from German sellers. I have rehoused a few lenses, so far with no issues. But I would be careful / avoid this with the Schneider XLs as these tend to be very sensitive to correct adjustment and shims (S-K specifically discouraged people from swapping shutters in the original lens brochure). Anyway, in today's second hand market, God only knows if a given lens is being sold in its original shutter, with the correct shims. Rodenstock used to put a sticker on the shutters, so perhaps when you are buying a Rodenstock lens and the shutter has a Rodenstock sticker on it, chances are greater that it might be original. But it is a lottery. I'd say that my observations are relevant for cameras shooting film where the tolerances are more generous than with a digital back. I wouldn't want to rehouse any of the HR and similar lenses for digital. This is why I bought the XT for digital work and not an Alpa (for instance) - to avoid this legacy shutter lottery.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

You can also just buy Rodie HR with AU. They are awesome and the shutters last forever, are made out of strong aluminium and almost indistructible.

Rodie HR and Schneider wides with Copal require extra due diligence.

A shutter replacement on a 43 XL can be quite expensive.

 

[abruzzi]

I recently managed to buy new/unused Copal 1 and Copal 3 shutters from Japanese sellers on eBay. Probably your best bet. Make sure that the aperture scale is present and correct for your lens - new scales are hard to obtain / expensive. I haven't figured out how to adjust Copal shutters (can it even be done?) to ensure that the aperture opens correctly for a given lens (i.e. that it just clears the lens opening when set at the lowest aperture value...different lenses will have different pupil size).

Every lens I've transplanted to a newer Copal shutter has it own blinds (or whatever you want to call it) on the lens elements themselves, so if the shutter aperture goes wider than the lenses max, you dont see itbecause its hidden by the blind on the lens.

This makes home-made aperture scales very easy. Since the later shutters have equal distance between each stop, I start by laying the the tape along the existing aperture scale, and marking a line at each full stop. If the max aperture of the lens is not on one of the standard full stops (4, 5.6, 8, 11, 16, etc) then I need to add one more tic at the right third stop of half stop for the max aperture. Next I write in the number next to the tics--6.7,8,11,etc.. With the shutter open, open the apertur all the way, then slowly close the aperture while loking through the lens, until you actually see the aperture blades begin to constrict the opening. Back it up just a tiny bit until the blades disappear again. I usually do this several times to ensure I have it as close as is possible to where the aperture blades are at the same opening as the blind that hides the blades. That is your maximum aperture.now carefully apply the take so that the lenses maximum aperture on the tape aligns with there the indicator shows.

Because stop-to-stop the distance on the selector stays the same, if you have the tape marked with the correct distance between the stops (which you got by copying the distance on the existing scale) and the widest aperture is placed at the correct place (which you get by opening the apertrue to the exact spot where the blades disappear behind the blind) then all the marks will be at the correct place.

I usually calculate what the opening is supposed to be mathmatically, and use a pair of calipers to check, but it has always been correct. If your copal/compur shutter doesn't have consistant spacing between stops this approach doesn't work. If you don't like hommade tape on your shutter, you can also send to SK Grimes and they etch new metal aperture plates for whatever glass is mounted.

 

[Alkibiades]

I recently managed to buy new/unused Copal 1 and Copal 3 shutters from Japanese sellers on eBay. Probably your best bet. Make sure that the aperture scale is present and correct for your lens - new scales are hard to obtain / expensive. I haven't figured out how to adjust Copal shutters (can it even be done?) to ensure that the aperture opens correctly for a given lens (i.e. that it just clears the lens opening when set at the lowest aperture value...different lenses will have different pupil size). This is easily done with Prontor Pro shutters - these are also worth a consideration if you can't find a Copal (the Copal 0 equivalent would be the Prontor Professional 01s). Not cheap but you may find one or two available on eBay from German sellers. I have rehoused a few lenses, so far with no issues. But I would be careful / avoid this with the Schneider XLs as these tend to be very sensitive to correct adjustment and shims (S-K specifically discouraged people from swapping shutters in the original lens brochure). Anyway, in today's second hand market, God only knows if a given lens is being sold in its original shutter, with the correct shims. Rodenstock used to put a sticker on the shutters, so perhaps when you are buying a Rodenstock lens and the shutter has a Rodenstock sticker on it, chances are greater that it might be original. But it is a lottery. I'd say that my observations are relevant for cameras shooting film where the tolerances are more generous than with a digital back. I wouldn't want to rehouse any of the HR and similar lenses for digital. This is why I bought the XT for digital work and not an Alpa (for instance) - to avoid this legacy shutter lottery.

rodenstock used the stickers only for a very short period, never for digaron lenses…
espessially for the digital lenses original mounted lenses means nothing, as the problems with the copal shutters happens after a time of usement.
the big HR digaron w lenses needs to be controled and tested from time to time.
prontor profesional is indeed the more modern shutter and better build.
but you are right, some lenses cannot be remounted from copal to prontor or from prontor to copal, for example schneider s.a xl 38mm, 47 mm, 58 mm
they are physicly different- no calibration is here posible.

 

[rdeloe]

The late Compur 0 shutters are also very good. I preferred the design over Copal 0 shutters; in the Compur shutters, the levers you need to operate don't clash as much. Seiko 0 shutters are quite old now so I would not consider those. The Prontor 0 shutters are quite bulky, but also among the newer ones. Given a choice, it would be Compur for me.

Here's a Compur 0 shutter into which I installed APO-Digitar 35/5.6 L-88 cells. In the picture at left, notice the shiny black raised rim. On the right, it's removed. It's just plastic and pops out. The front cell from the 35mm doesn't fit in the shutter until you remove the ring; then it fits fine. In the picture at right, you can see what I mean about the levers being positioned more intelligently. You can operate the aperture lever without having to fight with the shutter cocking lever, like you do on a Copal 0 shutter.


I don't use shutters anymore so I haven't figured out how to adjust the aperture, but it definitely can be done. Any Copal 0 shutter can take any cell that physically fits. If you figure out how to set the maximum aperture, you're good to go once you make yourself a label, or have someone do it.

If you can't figure out how to adjust the maximum aperture, a quick and dirty solution is to figure out what the position of the lever where the aperture is correct for that lens, and then stick on a new scale.

 

[abruzzi]

I don't use shutters anymore so I haven't figured out how to adjust the aperture, but it definitely can be done. Any Copal 0 shutter can take any cell that physically fits. If you figure out how to set the maximum aperture, you're good to go once you make yourself a label, or have someone do it.

If you can't figure out how to adjust the maximum aperture, a quick and dirty solution is to figure out what the position of the lever where the aperture is correct for that lens, and then stick on a new scale.

In the very old LF world there are exception to fit. Apparently some of the original 90mm Angulons (not Super) were designed for a #0 shutter that had a slightly different distance between front and rear cells. Not something I've experienced myself, but I have seen other discussion online about it. Take that with a heaping pinch of salt.

If you are transplanting, and you are moving into a shutter equal distance between stops, it is pretty easy to make a relatively accurate apurture scale on a piece of tape you place over the default scale. I've done this on #0, #1, and #3 shutters that I have transplanted lens cells into. I usually test with a caliper but I've never found my process to be off. If its helpful I can detail the process here. [EDIT: I forgot I gave a brief summary of the process previously--my memory seems to be a bit on edge at the moment]