Hasselblad 24mm (or 25mm) f2.5V and 135mm f2.5V

[MGrayson]

Howard,

Something I notice from your samples. When I link images, they always display at 200%. If I download one of your images, it opens twice as large on my laptop. I wonder if this is an Apple or Flickr thing. All my samples look much better reduced in size by a factor of two! I truly am pixel-peeping.

Matt

 

[hcubell]

I just checked, and you are right. Strange. The 100% crops are 1800 pixels x 1800 pixels JPEGs at 72 dpi, and I converted them in PS from a 16 Bit TIFF. The JPEGs were uploaded directly in the Forum software using the Attach Files function. I also just downloaded the JPEG from the Forum site, opened it in PS, and it look exactly like it did before and is the same size, 1800x1800 pixels at 72 ppi. I suspect that there is something about the Forum software t hat is resizing the image as displayed to fit my monitor.

 

[vjbelle]

A further drill down on field curvature and f-stop

I shot a center, edge, and corner series at multiple stops and at three focus settings, ∞, ∞ + 1.5mm, ∞ + 3mm. The results vary with f-stop, but understanding them helps figure out what the lens (this copy anyway) can and can't do.

In all these triptychs, the three focus points are, left to right, ∞, ∞ + 1.5mm, ∞ + 3mm. The Center and Corner crops are from the same images (taken on the diagonal). The Edge crops are from a second set of horizontal shots.

f/2.5 Center


f/2.5 Edge


f/2.5 Corner


f/2.5 summary: The center is sharp at ∞, the edge is very good at ∞ + 1.5mm , and the corner is ... least bad at ∞ + 1.5mm.

f/4 Center


f/4 Edge


f/4 Corner


Look at that! ∞ + 1.5mm (the center shot in each row) is sharp. All you need (on my copy, I repeat) is to focus 1.5mm past ∞, and that's why a mechanical focus scale is so important. If this were a tech camera, I would just shim the lens.

Does it continue? Let's look at f/5.6

Center


Edge


Corner


Yup

Let's just look at the ∞ + 1.5mm series for f/8 and f/11.

f/8


f/11


Some CA effects on the right edge of Mt. Sinai (the black monolith), but these were processed in LR and it doesn't have XCD 25 profiles yet. Indeed, CA seems the least controlled thing here. Running Adaptive CA Correction in Phocus usually gets rid of it, but that's not the standard setting, so you'd think something isn't quite right.

Well, I'd still like to know this compares to other copies.

Matt (who will post real pictures next time - promise!)

But these are REAL pictures - and important pictures.

Victor B.

 

[MGrayson]

Focus shift is easily demonstrable. Put the lens at f/5.6, zoom in, press stop-down, and AF (assuming you have assigned both of those to buttons). Now release the stop-down and press AF again. You'll see the focus jump. If you have focus peaking turned on, it's a dramatic shift of magenta (or whatever). I think there is also a slight mis-calibration of the manual focus ring. Wide open, I have to manually focus to the right edge of the ∞ to get the peaking to show up on a distant building. Stop it down, and it requires a bit more (as demonstrated earlier).

AF, of course, gets it on-the-nose at the f-stop you use to focus, so stopped-down AF is correct - at least at the focus point.

Other things I noticed:

The "lens to infinity focus" button gives middle of the ∞ symbol focus regardless of f-stop. This front-focuses slightly wide open and quite a bit stopped down. If only I could see stars at night in the city, this would be easy to capture.

Also, the focus-by-wire ring will go much further beyond infinity than the manual ring.

Once again, this all applies only to my copy.

Matt

 

[akaru]

One annoyance I had with the XCD V series lenses (and admittedly I am not very experienced in AF) is that switching from AF to MF changes the focus. I can’t find a way to lock the AF or prevent it from refocusing on shutter press, and that would be one way to do so. Normally I set an extra button to AF and leave a shutter half-press for exposure (if not in M, and I‘m almost always in M).

I really don’t like focus by wire, but the speed is useful to me on these new lenses as a sort of Leica analogue with a better aspect ratio, and the MF/AF switching is at least elegant, but it still leaves me wishing for more. (Also, why is there a dedicated button solely for the aperture clicks? I could think of a dozen things I’d use an extra button for, such as turning on/off IBIS. If this camera shot video, maybe that would make sense. But it’s a later design addition since the 90V, and I just can’t understand what the point of it is when it could just be in the menu.)

Was really looking forward to this lens for nightscapes, but if there’s bad coma and the edges are soft it has me wondering.

 

[MGrayson]

One annoyance I had with the XCD V series lenses (and admittedly I am not very experienced in AF) is that switching from AF to MF changes the focus. I can’t find a way to lock the AF or prevent it from refocusing on shutter press, and that would be one way to do so. Normally I set an extra button to AF and leave a shutter half-press for exposure (if not in M, and I‘m almost always in M).

I really don’t like focus by wire, but the speed is useful to me on these new lenses as a sort of Leica analogue with a better aspect ratio, and the MF/AF switching is at least elegant, but it still leaves me wishing for more. (Also, why is there a dedicated button solely for the aperture clicks? I could think of a dozen things I’d use an extra button for, such as turning on/off IBIS. If this camera shot video, maybe that would make sense. But it’s a later design addition since the 90V, and I just can’t understand what the point of it is when it could just be in the menu.)

Was really looking forward to this lens for nightscapes, but if there’s bad coma and the edges are soft it has me wondering.

Yeah. The focus moves to whatever the manual ring is set to, no matter where the AF had put it.

 

[PeterA]

You blokes have freaked me out re the 25 - so I cancelled my order and have put on order from my favourite dealer to find me a good copy of a used 21XCD - in the mean time ,I will continue using what I think is the excellent 30mm XCD for wide. Very unconvinced about the cost V IQ of the V series lenses tbh my shooting interest is moving more and more to boring stationary stuff so I might have to bite the bullet and invest in a tech camera for wide with perspective control - something I thought I would never ever ever do again. Oh well.

 

[MGrayson]

You blokes have freaked me out re the 25 - so I cancelled my order and have put on order from my favourite dealer to find me a good copy of a used 21XCD - in the mean time ,I will continue using what I think is the excellent 30mm XCD for wide. Very unconvinced about the cost V IQ of the V series lenses tbh my shooting interest is moving more and more to boring stationary stuff so I might have to bite the bullet and invest in a tech camera for wide with perspective control - something I thought I would never ever ever do again. Oh well.

Peter,

I started out pretty upset with this lens, but now that I think I understand its quirks, they are manageable. The pictures I've seen from others' copies look good. If the clouds and rain here ever stop, I'll take it out for a walk with my favorite MF lens, the Leica S 24/3.5 and we'll see how it works in the real world. (Well, NYC, anyway...) Do I wish it were as bulletproof as the XCD 21/4 or XCD 30/3.5? Yep! Deal breaker? Too early to tell.

If I could change one thing, it would be to make it an f/4 lens. If it always focused at f/4, there'd be no focus shift or field curvature problems. I've been focusing stopped down on other lenses lately anyway. But viewed as an f/4 lens with an f/2.5 mode for shallow DoF don't-worry-about-the-corners, it looks good. Now If sharp wide-open astro photos show up, then everything changes and I just have a bad copy. But no one has ever made an MF lens this wide with that aperture, so I don't know what we should expect.

Matt

 

[PeterA]

Peter,

I started out pretty upset with this lens, but now that I think I understand its quirks, they are manageable. The pictures I've seen from others' copies look good. If the clouds and rain here ever stop, I'll take it out for a walk with my favorite MF lens, the Leica S 24/3.5 and we'll see how it works in the real world. (Well, NYC, anyway...) Do I wish it were as bulletproof as the XCD 21/4 or XCD 30/3.5? Yep! Deal breaker? Too early to tell.

If I could change one thing, it would be to make it an f/4 lens. If it always focused at f/4, there'd be no focus shift or field curvature problems. I've been focusing stopped down on other lenses lately anyway. But viewed as an f/4 lens with an f/2.5 mode for shallow DoF don't-worry-about-the-corners, it looks good. Now If sharp wide-open astro photos show up, then everything changes and I just have a bad copy. But no one has ever made an MF lens this wide with that aperture, so I don't know what we should expect.

Matt

Hi Matt,

I'm not convinced that teh V lenses offer anything more in terms of Image IQ ( for my purposes anyway) than the XCD line does. An aperture ring is nice and the push pull manual autofocus facility is nice and less weight is nice as is the extra stop or half - but really in MF land I cant see the point of fast apertures- because subject separation or pop is achieved fairly easily and in most of my use cases I don't want or need subject separation getting enough DOF is the challenge - I see no compelling reason to pine for a V lens and if the 25 isnt markedly different , better and obviously so to the 21- why bother is my thinking. The more reviews I am reading the more I am seeing marginal if any gains from any of these V lenses V the 'older' XCD range.

Cheers and thanks for your initial thoughts on the lens
Pete

 

[MGrayson]

Hi Matt,

I'm not convinced that teh V lenses offer anything more in terms of Image IQ ( for my purposes anyway) than the XCD line does. An aperture ring is nice and the push pull manual autofocus facility is nice and less weight is nice as is the extra stop or half - but really in MF land I cant see the point of fast apertures- because subject separation or pop is achieved fairly easily and in most of my use cases I don't want or need subject separation getting enough DOF is the challenge - I see no compelling reason to pine for a V lens and if the 25 isnt markedly different , better and obviously so to the 21- why bother is my thinking. The more reviews I am reading the more I am seeing marginal if any gains from any of these V lenses V the 'older' XCD range.

Cheers and thanks for your initial thoughts on the lens
Pete

Peter,

I don't think it's a better lens than the 21 or 30, and doesn't offer any advantages other than the MF ring unless you really want that focal length. It's one I particularly like and have felt the gap between 21 and 30 to be the weakest part of the system (a very personal issue!) But I had the Fuji GF 23 and I almost never used it .
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If I didn't have anything wider than the 30, I'd get the 21 first. It's a special lens.

Matt

 

[davidsuchoff]

Matt,

Without conducting any rigorous comparison - how does the 25v compare to the 28p?

Thanks!

 

[KlausJH]

You blokes have freaked me out re the 25 - so I cancelled my order and have put on order from my favourite dealer to find me a good copy of a used 21XCD - in the mean time ,I will continue using what I think is the excellent 30mm XCD for wide. Very unconvinced about the cost V IQ of the V series lenses tbh my shooting interest is moving more and more to boring stationary stuff so I might have to bite the bullet and invest in a tech camera for wide with perspective control - something I thought I would never ever ever do again. Oh well.

That is exactly how I feel. I'm more than happy with my XCD21 and XCD30. I got one of the first 55V and sold my 45P. Big mistake, It felt quite loose at the mount and after a while the edges got worse and worse. I have no idea what was going on. I parted with the 55V and will go back to a 45P. At the end it will probably a tech camera.

 

[MGrayson]

Matt,

Without conducting any rigorous comparison - how does the 25v compare to the 28p?

Thanks!

Bigger and heavier! I like the 25 much more after using it today. Took a lot of pics. The 28 is just a bit too long (!) for my tastes. As good as the 30 is (and it's magnificent) I didn't buy a copy this time around because I so seldom used it. I'm pretty sure the 25 will be my "live on the camera" lens, even thought the 28 is more portable.

Many pics to post later...

Matt

 

[davidsuchoff]

Thanks for sharing, Matt!

 

[MGrayson]

So! I lugged around the 6 pounds of Leica S3 + S24/3.5 and the 3.3 pounds of X2D + XCD 25/2.5V which together made for about 27 pounds (God, I'm a wimp). I wore them like bandoliers with two sling straps. It's a good thing New Yorkers are used to it. I took 40 shots with each camera.

I didn't do anything to try to match colors, or even processing. I just did a quick pass on each image.

Summary, the XCD 25/2.5V is a definite keeper. Easy to use and produces images I like as much as the S24/3.5 at half the weight.

In no particular order...

Hasselblad wide open and close focus (28cm)


Leica wide open and close focus (40cm)


This is a surprising color difference, as Leica usually pops the reds. No extra saturation applied. The DoF is fairly narrow, but the flower bits in focus are sharp in both images.

Hasselblad f/8


Leica f/8


Hasselblad f/11 (no reason - probably hit the aperture ring by mistake) XPan crop


Leica f/8


That bridge that I photographed 40 years ago with a Pentax 67.

Hasselblad


Leica


Matt

 

[jng]

So! I lugged around the 6 pounds of Leica S3 + S24/3.5 and the 3.3 pounds of X2D + XCD 25/2.5V which together made for about 27 pounds (God, I'm a wimp). I wore them like bandoliers with two sling straps. It's a good thing New Yorkers are used to it. I took 40 shots with each camera.

I didn't do anything to try to match colors, or even processing. I just did a quick pass on each image.

Summary, the XCD 25/2.5V is a definite keeper. Easy to use and produces images I like as much as the S24/3.5 at half the weight.

In no particular order...

Hasselblad wide open and close focus (28cm)


Leica wide open and close focus (40cm)


This is a surprising color difference, as Leica usually pops the reds. No extra saturation applied. The DoF is fairly narrow, but the flower bits in focus are sharp in both images.

Hasselblad f/8


Leica f/8


Hasselblad f/11 (no reason - probably hit the aperture ring by mistake) XPan crop


Leica f/8


That bridge that I photographed 40 years ago with a Pentax 67.

Hasselblad


Leica


Matt

Thanks for the real world images, Matt. I hope your back has recovered from slogging around both systems, but all in the name of science, right?

From your experience it seems that the 25V is an excellent lens for close-up and most landscape use cases, the latter if stopped down a bit (TBH, I don't even bother checking the edges at large apertures as I rarely work in those ranges for landscape/cityscape). The fast f/2.5 maximum aperture would seem to be a nice feature for focus isolation or street shooting in low light, but for astrophotography perhaps not so much. Horses for courses, as the saying goes (although my equestrian wife told me she never heard of this saying...).

John

 

[MGrayson]

Thanks for the real world images, Matt. I hope your back has recovered from slogging around both systems, but all in the name of science, right?

From your experience it seems that the 25V is an excellent lens for close-up and most landscape use cases, the latter if stopped down a bit (TBH, I don't even bother checking the edges at large apertures as I rarely work in those ranges for landscape/cityscape). The fast f/2.5 maximum aperture would seem to be a nice feature for focus isolation or street shooting in low light, but for astrophotography perhaps not so much. Horses for courses, as the saying goes (although my equestrian wife told me she never heard of this saying...).

John

John,

Pretty much agree. Knowing that it front focuses a but due to shift makes it easy to choose a focus point in a scene with depth (or use stop-down focus, but I was lazy). At infinity, I know where to turn the MF ring. So it's pretty simple out in the field. Never done astro and, living in NYC, probably never will.

Matt

 

[rdeloe]

Bigger and heavier! I like the 25 much more after using it today. Took a lot of pics. The 28 is just a bit too long (!) for my tastes. As good as the 30 is (and it's magnificent) I didn't buy a copy this time around because I so seldom used it. I'm pretty sure the 25 will be my "live on the camera" lens, even thought the 28 is more portable.

Many pics to post later...

Matt

This has turned into one of those "Seven stages of accepting a new lens" posts.

Seriously though, I've been here lots of times. Initial excitement turns to disappointment when you discover something terrible and deal-breaking. But then disappointment turns to satisfaction when you figure it out and realize it's neither terrible nor deal-breaking, and the lens is a prize after all (but just with some quirks that have to be accounted for).

Glad it worked out!

 

[MGrayson]

This has turned into one of those "Seven stages of accepting a new lens" posts.

Seriously though, I've been here lots of times. Initial excitement turns to disappointment when you discover something terrible and deal-breaking. But then disappointment turns to satisfaction when you figure it out and realize it's neither terrible nor deal-breaking, and the lens is a prize after all (but just with some quirks that have to be accounted for).

Glad it worked out!

Yeah, It's a cliché, and I'm no exception. (Not sure if documenting that fact was a waste of bandwidth.) OTOH, a fair number of lenses in this price bracket and up are delights right out of the box. If a lens says Leica and APO, you are not going to have to work around its quirks. Until recently, the same was true of XCD.. X*D Cameras? Quirky as all hell. XCD Lenses? Just plain good. Whatever. Learn the tools and move on, as you said.

 

[vjbelle]

I shiver every time I put an order in for a lens. It really is just a crap shoot hoping for the best and sometimes getting the worst - and this includes Fuji! If it were me the 25V would be history and I would move on.

Hope you are ultimately happy/satisfied with the results of the 25V for your purposes.

Victor B.