Leica SL3

[PeterA]

What are you talking about. I've been a Leica shooter since the 2000s (M8, then M9 + 50 SX when they came out) and had the SL, SL2 (recently sold) and now held off from the SL3 because the S4 will cover both the SL3 and S3; and no, I am not new to APO glass. I know Leica in and out.

I have all S lenses (except the zoom), all APO M lenses, a few Summiluxes, on the SL all APO primes + the SX50 except the 21. I just recently filled the "SL APO middle" which was the 35 and 28. and I held off these as I like to adapt the 35 M APO on the SL system and felt the 35 SL was a duplication, despite AF.

I've had the APO 50 M since the first weeks when it came out ... so pls. — I know Leica in and out.

And I am also involved in the S4 focus group given I have all the S glass (in product development they identify different user personas, including passionate amateurs, working pro's etc. to identify the key features needed. From my side I strongly suggested they work on colour, adaptability and class-leading S lens target specs).

I am not looking forward to buying the best - I invested in the SL system right when it came end of 2015 (trade-in of my M9 + cash), back then just for adapting M glass and built my Leica collection over a period of almost 20! years which is why it is palatable. As said, I bought my old gen I summilux sometime mid 2000s.

My favorite camera atm is the S3, which I take out 99% of the time because of the rendering of such optics like the 35 2.5 or the 24 Super Elmar.

On the SL APO line – there are some small gripes:

1) Their character can seem overly clinical with low vignetting and perfect sharpness ; the S glass and especially M Summilux line has a smoother bokeh and cinematic rendering; sometimes I miss this when shooting their APO glass

2) The AF is still the weak spot of Leica. Although better with the SL, its still not best-in-class compared to what Sony and Canon push out; you could argue it doesnt matter, but I feel sometimes it could be a bit snappier and am looking forward to seeing what they cook up with the S AF motors in the new S4 glass lineup – remember, AF was never Leica's forte; the S tried hard, the SL even harder, and now let's hope they nail it finally.

Paul I'm genuinely happy for you and your obvious passion for 'da best' - I dont undestand why you had a problem reading what I wrote - pretty plain English. Dont feel the need to post your 'credentials' and Leica 'authority' - I have no intrerest in anything on here except the photography that the good people post- the rest is blah blah blah. I do think it is very strange that you insist on belittling Hasselblad and Hasselblad users at every opportunity- that is kinda weird- since you as a 'professed' Leica shooter should know by now- a lot of us are also big fans of Hasseblad - for very obvious reasons to anyone who has a clue.

 

[lookbook]

Paul I'm genuinely happy for you and your obvious passion for 'da best' - I dont undestand why you had a problem reading what I wrote - pretty plain English. Dont feel the need to post your 'credentials' and Leica 'authority' - I have no intrerest in anything on here except the photography that the good people post- the rest is blah blah blah. I do think it is very strange that you insist on belittling Hasselblad and Hasselblad users at every opportunity- that is kinda weird- since you as a 'professed' Leica shooter should know by now- a lot of us are also big fans of Hasseblad - for very obvious reasons to anyone who has a clue.

.. also applies to ALL other brands -
A good photo is a good photo - and everything else is nonsense ..

 

[PeterA]

.. also applies to ALL other brands -
A good photo is a good photo - and everything else is nonsense ..

Indeed.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

.. also applies to ALL other brands -
A good photo is a good photo - and everything else is nonsense ..

There's a lot of nonsense posted in the images forum ...

 

[lookbook]

There's a lot of nonsense posted in the images forum ...

.. please show us poor people the photographic achievements of your valuable top-quality equipment,
so that we can go from reading about it to seeing it.
So far there hasn't been much ...

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Paul I'm genuinely happy for you and your obvious passion for 'da best' - I dont undestand why you had a problem reading what I wrote - pretty plain English. Dont feel the need to post your 'credentials' and Leica 'authority' - I have no intrerest in anything on here except the photography that the good people post- the rest is blah blah blah. I do think it is very strange that you insist on belittling Hasselblad and Hasselblad users at every opportunity- that is kinda weird- since you as a 'professed' Leica shooter should know by now- a lot of us are also big fans of Hasseblad - for very obvious reasons to anyone who has a clue.

Well, your earlier post shows a display of arrogance / sarcasm. Instead of adding valuable insight to the discussion, you opted to belittle someone else's enthusiasm. Not everyone is fixated on chasing so-called 'character lenses' which in itself has become a trite trope. You can smear also some vaseline on a front element - I am sure there's an influencer video for that .. oh wait, yes:

The discussion around Hasselblad always was about what heppened to them and that it has become a brand that's mass-market luxury meaning precisely its marketed via influencers and it is, among other channels, also sold alongside drones in retail locations like malls. The discussion also revolved around the way they discriminate against small dealers by managing supply chain to their benefit. But that's another discussion and boring - its clear that from a commercial stand point they carved a new following after the takeover and this is precisely a missed opportunity for say P1 who never opted to design a mirrorless system when the market was still wide and open up for grabs. Hasselblad's early entry now pays off.

If all you have to offer is sarcasm, maybe reconsider whether your input is as invaluable as you seem to think.

I personally think the S4 will lure quite a few Fuji and Hasselblad MF system shooters to Leica and I also think the SL3 is a fantastic camera with the best 35mm optics commercially available right now from a prue optical quality stand point.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

.. please show us poor people the photographic achievements of your valuable top-quality equipment,
so that we can go from reading about it to seeing it.
So far there hasn't been much ...

I have posted quite a bit, but as said, shoot mostly for myself and find the quality here sometimes very low (snaps of mundane scenes) and the discussions then even lower. That's why I keep image posting to a minimum nowadays. I feel for some its more an outlet to share because no one else looks at it, they are in a stage of life with too much time, etc., but I guess this is the nature of photographic forums. When its just an indiscriminate flurry of random pictures from the last cocktail party, just as an example to illustrate, turned to black and white it becomes painful IMHO. Not sure you can relate to this.

You seem to have a problem always when its about certain equipment (your Alpa posts showed that) and like to underscore the "value element" on products you don't even own. To me a giveaway sign of frustration. I never make it about the value, but about the photographic merits - when I get a Summilux lens its because they render special. If I get an Alpa, its because its the most precise camera for my case. I don't care about the value, but more about the quslity and utility in practice and here its just so that I think Leica, P1 and Alpa produce great quality products. Every single lens I own has its photographic merit – I wish too that Leica would be in a more budget friendly segment, but it doesnt change the fact that say the SL APO lenses or a legendary Summilux 50 stand on their own in the photographic world and are good purchases for their utility, price aside.

In fact, it is not uncommon that Leica shooters, for example, are Leica shooters for life and over time get the esssentials, meanin 35, 50 summilux, maybe an APO lens and over time many different focal lengths. Thet's the whole point about Leica - a lot of their customers over the years expand their lenses to cover the whole focal length spectrum and the beauty of the SL3 is that it literally the most enjoyable non-M, M camera which makes using say a Summilux 35 a pure joy, courtesy of the EVF and good focusing implementation.

 

[PeterA]

Well, your earlier post shows a display of arrogance / sarcasm. Instead of adding valuable insight to the discussion, you opted to belittle someone else's enthusiasm. Not everyone is fixated on chasing so-called 'character lenses' which in itself has become a trite trope. You can smear also some vaseline on a front element - I am sure there's an influencer video for that .. oh wait, yes:

The discussion around Hasselblad always was about what heppened to them and that it has become a brand that's mass-market luxury meaning precisely its marketed via influencers and it is, among other channels, also sold alongside drones in retail locations like malls. The discussion also revolved around the way they discriminate against small dealers by managing supply chain to their benefit. But that's another discussion and boring - its clear that from a commercial stand point they carved a new following after the takeover and this is precisely a missed opportunity for say P1 who never opted to design a mirrorless system when the market was still wide and open up for grabs. Hasselblad's early entry now pays off.

If all you have to offer is sarcasm, maybe reconsider whether your input is as invaluable as you seem to think.

I personally think the S4 will lure quite a few Fuji and Hasselblad MF system shooters to Leica and I also think the SL3 is a fantastic camera with the best 35mm optics commercially available right now from a prue optical quality stand point.

Paul as a former camera addict I can understand where you are coming from with the whole gear head thing - no sarcasm on my part I can assure you - when I say whatever makes you happy I mean it. However your happiness shouldnt be contingent on constant negativity towards anything non Phase One and ( now presumanbly anything not an imaginary Leica with its imaginary lenses that are conming to a non drone selling shop not in a mall -very soon) .

It is all about the 'vibe' buddy. People post their shots to share - that is why most of the live threads are called "fun with"...sharing life's experinces with nice people is what maks this place interesting. Photography ( or anything else ) isnt a competition it is a personal investment in precious time - when we look at someone's photograph we are actually looking at someone who has spent X amount of time to make the shot, PP it and post it - for nothing except the experience of sharing.

I do enjoy people posting examples of a photo taken with this lens or that camera which demonstrate a point that is being made though. Perhaps you can do some posting like that to frame your observations about lenses and stuff..? I know I have done a lot of that in the past - as for Leica apo lenses of which I own far too many - I see no real difference at normal shooting apertures of 5.6-11 betwen them or lenses made 50 yearss ago except to say ( again) high contrast is as bad a meme as shooting stuff at close range at 0.95 to get blur. big deal. Here is a thoiughyt - maybe you shoud rent a blad or a Fuji and a couple of their lenses and give it a try - you might surprise yourself. They all make nice pictures as does any camera ever made - so does my Iphone.

Pete.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Paul as a former camera addict I can understand where you are coming from with the whole gear head thing - no sarcasm on my part I can assure you - when I say whatever makes you happy I mean it. However your happiness shouldnt be contingent on constant negativity towards anything non Phase One and ( now presumanbly anything not an imaginary Leica with its imaginary lenses that are conming to a non drone selling shop not in a mall -very soon) .

It is all about the 'vibe' buddy. People post their shots to share - that is why most of the live threads are called "fun with"...sharing life's experinces with nice people is what maks this place interesting. Photography ( or anything else ) isnt a competition it is a personal investment in precious time - when we look at someone's photograph we are actually looking at someone who has spent X amount of time to make the shot, PP it and post it - for nothing except the experience of sharing.

I do enjoy people posting examples of a photo taken with this lens or that camera which demonstrate a point that is being made though. Perhaps you can do some posting like that to frame your observations about lenses and stuff..? I know I have done a lot of that in the past - as for Leica apo lenses of which I own far too many - I see no real difference at normal shooting apertures of 5.6-11 betwen them or lenses made 50 yearss ago except to say ( again) high contrast is as bad a meme as shooting stuff at close range at 0.95 to get blur. big deal. Here is a thoiughyt - maybe you shoud rent a blad or a Fuji and a couple of their lenses and give it a try - you might surprise yourself. They all make nice pictures as does any camera ever made - so does my Iphone.

Pete.

Hi Pete

All good. I am fine with Leica – the S4 will be worth the wait.

Its essentially an SL3 on steroids - in all regards. So that will cover a big part of the spectrum for me.

BR

 

[lookbook]

I have posted quite a bit, but as said, shoot mostly for myself and find the quality here sometimes very low (snaps of mundane scenes) and the discussions then even lower. That's why I keep image posting to a minimum nowadays. I feel for some its more an outlet to share because no one else looks at it, they are in a stage of life with too much time, etc., but I guess this is the nature of photographic forums. When its just an indiscriminate flurry of random pictures from the last cocktail party, just as an example to illustrate, turned to black and white it becomes painful IMHO. Not sure you can relate to this.

You seem to have a problem always when its about certain equipment (your Alpa posts showed that) and like to underscore the "value element" on products you don't even own. To me a giveaway sign of frustration. I never make it about the value, but about the photographic merits - when I get a Summilux lens its because they render special. If I get an Alpa, its because its the most precise camera for my case. I don't care about the value, but more about the quslity and utility in practice and here its just so that I think Leica, P1 and Alpa produce great quality products. Every single lens I own has its photographic merit – I wish too that Leica would be in a more budget friendly segment, but it doesnt change the fact that say the SL APO lenses or a legendary Summilux 50 stand on their own in the photographic world and are good purchases for their utility, price aside.

In fact, it is not uncommon that Leica shooters, for example, are Leica shooters for life and over time get the esssentials, meanin 35, 50 summilux, maybe an APO lens and over time many different focal lengths. Thet's the whole point about Leica - a lot of their customers over the years expand their lenses to cover the whole focal length spectrum and the beauty of the SL3 is that it literally the most enjoyable non-M, M camera which makes using say a Summilux 35 a pure joy, courtesy of the EVF and good focusing implementation.

.. I am actually someone who takes photos wherever I am -
and doesn't drive anywhere to take photos. That's how I act too.
It says that everywhere - so it's not that difficult to find out.

But you are a great photographer - and or an artist in your eyes
and the proof of your greatness is your expensive equipment, without which you can't make art.

It's a shame that you can't increase your fame with photos -
But maybe the idea of what you could do with all that is enough for you -
and the feel! Yes, you still have the feel! - don't you?

 

[MGrayson]

Could be worse - I have the equipment but can't take photos. I hope this phase passes.

I'm not even interested in new equipment. I was waiting for the Apple M4 laptops, but - nah. My old M1 is good enough. Haven't even considered the last two Hassy lenses. I should check DSM-5. I'm pretty sure lack of GAS indicates major depression.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

.. I am actually someone who takes photos wherever I am -
and doesn't drive anywhere to take photos. That's how I act too.
It says that everywhere - so it's not that difficult to find out.

But you are a great photographer - and or an artist in your eyes
and the proof of your greatness is your expensive equipment, without which you can't make art.

It's a shame that you can't increase your fame with photos -
But maybe the idea of what you could do with all that is enough for you -
and the feel! Yes, you still have the feel! - don't you?

What are you talking about - you seemingly have inferiority complexes as you always drive it to the value point. I get it, you are at the later stage in life and your Fuji is all you have and you have too much time to walk around at events and shoot away to then dump it on a forum. Great.

I just mention what I use, never mention (or care about) the value of gear - for me its about quality of the product - and I am no need to increase fame and I do not get why you always drive it to the expensive point other than that you secretly are jealous of people who can pursue photography like they want. I have been using Leica, Alpa, P1 since end of 2000s, it has always been about the best tools in my own view after having tried the rest and actually its not expensive if it is spread about over almost two decades.

In the Alpa thread you quickly got shot down for your comments where you basically insinuated that all Alpa shooters are just hobbyists with money and now again you are commenting on Leica gear as a budget Fuji user although you don't even own Leica stuff.

You really have a weird vision of reality and seemingly hold a grudge - Neidkomplex is typically German - for being stuck with your system and photographically speaking I am just waiting to see some cactuses or white walls in Black and White framed from your latest outings with the Fuji.

 

[anyone]

Gentlemen, calm down - there are different approaches to photography, and each has its own merits.

The only thing I agree with is that there could be a separate S4 speculation thread

 

[lookbook]

What are you talking about - you seemingly have inferiority complexes as you always drive it to the value point. I get it, you are at the later stage in life and your Fuji is all you have and you have too much time to walk around at events and shoot away to then dump it on a forum. Great.

I just mention what I use, never mention (or care about) the value of gear - for me its about quality of the product - and I am no need to increase fame and I do not get why you always drive it to the expensive point other than that you secretly are jealous of people who can pursue photography like they want. I have been using Leica, Alpa, P1 since end of 2000s, it has always been about the best tools in my own view after having tried the rest and actually its not expensive if it is spread about over almost two decades.

In the Alpa thread you quickly got shot down for your comments where you basically insinuated that all Alpa shooters are just hobbyists with money and now again you are commenting on Leica gear as a budget Fuji user although you don't even own Leica stuff.

You really have a weird vision of reality and seemingly hold a grudge - Neidkomplex is typically German - for being stuck with your system and photographically speaking I am just waiting to see some cactuses or white walls in Black and White framed from your latest outings with the Fuji.

Paul doesn't know anything about me!
His statements about me are slanderous!
I only comment on camera brands that I have used myself.

I'm repeating this in short form because I have often contradicted the speculations in discussions with Paul and he just doesn't want to remember it.
He just doesn't want to remember it!!
If you can't remember it, Paul - print it out so you can read it.

I can't be jealous of your photography either, Paul - it's practically non-existent.

In the Alpa thread, I never assumed anything about ALL Alpa photographers.
I underlined what the owner of the ALPA company had found out about his main target group.
In short, he described them like this - they have a lot of money and like to treat themselves to another luxury product.
You can believe this guy, right?

You can't believe everything other guys from Switzerland say. You are spreading half-truths and speculations...
That's the way it is, Paul - isn't it?

But don't worry, Paul - I'm not making assumptions about others based on you.
Have a nice evening

 

[akaru]

@lookbook give it up. You’ve ruined this thread as you’ve done many times already. You come in guns blazing with unwarranted and unprovoked ad hominems. Maybe there’s baggage from other threads but stop stirring it up!