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PSA: Are you looking for unicorn Schneider lenses (43 XL, 60 XL, 120 ASPH)?
- Thread starter rdeloe
- Start date
Mexecutioner
Well-known member
Damn…
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
@akaru -> slimming down? 
At least keep the Alpa stuff
I recently tried out my 43 XL again on the achromatic - still, nothing touches it. Fantastic lenses only to be sold when you really, really never come back (but are you sure) or need cash.It is a shame that SK discontinued its own photo lenses.
Given they are out of production, feature close sensor symmetric designs meaning all lines are straight, are specc'd with ginormous image circles ... really unique.
Who, if anyone would do an ultra high resolving 120mm IC symmetric wide angle these days? No one. Its like 8x10 lenses or drum scanners - the very best of an era with unique properties to stand the test of time. Except that glass with copal has no electronics, so most likely can last longer than say an Heidelberg drum scanner.
Can't wait to slap them onto an IQ5.
Fully get this is sold on ebay - people on forums still think somehow they can lowball rare equipment which took people ages to get as if they don't know their real value.
Also interesting to see the trend - there seems to be a widening of the gap between vintage in-production Rodie HR stuff, and out of production SK late-gen stuff. Classic Rodie HR lost a bit of value (e.g. a 10y old 90 HR) while newer X shutter mounted lenses are very rare and hold better vs. unobtainiums SK legends. I think it has to do with a generational shift. 2000s and 2010s tech cam shooters are now older and can't afford all the new stuff - X shutter, IQ4 / IQ5 or have moved on to more compact equipment for logistical reasons. So you get the copal HR lenses which may come with issues though especially for wide angles as the copal shutter get get out of spec over time - be it through transport, the way the lenses were stored - e.g. top heavy 32 HR - so caveat specially with 23, 32... SK on the other hand less problamtic. They're feather light and once the copal is fitted it is not thaat easy to get them out of spec.
The only missing in this collection is the 28 XL which is even more rare than all other lenses as it was an expensive wide angle already back in the day and was produced in very limited quantities. In the case of Alpa only 50 were ever made, 1 is confirmed destroyed ...
Of course Alpa is even more expensive as they can't produce the barrels anymore while with Arca you can just find the bare lens and mount it whic is a lot easier.
Great stuff. Don't sell your SK glass except if you are REALLY sure you'll never come back.
At least keep the Alpa stuff I recently tried out my 43 XL again on the achromatic - still, nothing touches it. Fantastic lenses only to be sold when you really, really never come back (but are you sure) or need cash.It is a shame that SK discontinued its own photo lenses.
Given they are out of production, feature close sensor symmetric designs meaning all lines are straight, are specc'd with ginormous image circles ... really unique.
Who, if anyone would do an ultra high resolving 120mm IC symmetric wide angle these days? No one. Its like 8x10 lenses or drum scanners - the very best of an era with unique properties to stand the test of time. Except that glass with copal has no electronics, so most likely can last longer than say an Heidelberg drum scanner.
Can't wait to slap them onto an IQ5.
Fully get this is sold on ebay - people on forums still think somehow they can lowball rare equipment which took people ages to get as if they don't know their real value.
Also interesting to see the trend - there seems to be a widening of the gap between vintage in-production Rodie HR stuff, and out of production SK late-gen stuff. Classic Rodie HR lost a bit of value (e.g. a 10y old 90 HR) while newer X shutter mounted lenses are very rare and hold better vs. unobtainiums SK legends. I think it has to do with a generational shift. 2000s and 2010s tech cam shooters are now older and can't afford all the new stuff - X shutter, IQ4 / IQ5 or have moved on to more compact equipment for logistical reasons. So you get the copal HR lenses which may come with issues though especially for wide angles as the copal shutter get get out of spec over time - be it through transport, the way the lenses were stored - e.g. top heavy 32 HR - so caveat specially with 23, 32... SK on the other hand less problamtic. They're feather light and once the copal is fitted it is not thaat easy to get them out of spec.
The only missing in this collection is the 28 XL which is even more rare than all other lenses as it was an expensive wide angle already back in the day and was produced in very limited quantities. In the case of Alpa only 50 were ever made, 1 is confirmed destroyed ...
Of course Alpa is even more expensive as they can't produce the barrels anymore while with Arca you can just find the bare lens and mount it whic is a lot easier.
Great stuff. Don't sell your SK glass except if you are REALLY sure you'll never come back.
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@cunim price is negotiable, nothing to scoff at…how often do you see a kit like this? But eBay takes a massive cut so if anyone wants this (or part if later I need to part it out) directly that will make a big difference. Have a $7k offer for the 60 already.
Only selling extra copies and moving fully into Alpa. I won’t sell my last SK copies unless I absolutely have to.
Body cap is 95mm IIRC.
Only selling extra copies and moving fully into Alpa. I won’t sell my last SK copies unless I absolutely have to.
Body cap is 95mm IIRC.
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Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
They have been selling at the 10 mark in the past. I think it is not a bad deal given you most likely won’t be able to buy any of these easily back and given that new lenses from phase are at the 10-13k mark. Let’s not even talk about the 138. Adjusted for inflation since they came out and given they are out of production its never gonna be cheap especially knowing that there will be an IQ5 and there is always a market for the top end of photographers who want large IC, compact, sharp as hell symmetric tech can lenses. If it is your work tool it is ok to spend that amount on it IMHO. It is an architectural photographers dream kit right there.
Especially Alpa mount variants sell in the 10k range given it is a lot harder to procure as the barrels are not made anymore. The 60 is well worth 10k - it is a desert island lens.
Especially Alpa mount variants sell in the 10k range given it is a lot harder to procure as the barrels are not made anymore. The 60 is well worth 10k - it is a desert island lens.
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rdeloe
Well-known member
I didn't realize the eBay ad was from a member here! I was about to send a note to the eBay account suggesting that this forum is where many of the potential buyers can be found.
Good luck with your sale. That's a lovely outfit you're parting company with.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
I got stuff from him in the past. Great guy. And with SK Big Four (28, 43, 60, 120) and greats like the 35 XL you cannot go wrong, frankly. Value is going to be stable or if you have time going to rise as soon as P1 further brings the IQ5 to market. 1) IQ4s will hit CPO market like crazy and 2) IQ5 will fully exploit these brilliant lenses. Greiner told me that the advent of the IQ4 really increased demand for the SK greats and he has waiting lists for all of them with people sometimes ... forever.
Thanks for the kind words. I know if I were starting out or switching systems this would be a dream kit. I wouldn’t rule out separating it out over time especially for my beloved forum members, and at substantial savings (eBay takes way too much of a cut IMO). I didn’t post here since I assumed few if any would be interested in the whole kit.
Thanks to @JeffK, @ruebe, @vjbelle, @nicoswartz and others I’m solidifying to Alpa. Would like to keep the Arca kit but that money is better spent on my daughter right now.
Thanks to @JeffK, @ruebe, @vjbelle, @nicoswartz and others I’m solidifying to Alpa. Would like to keep the Arca kit but that money is better spent on my daughter right now.
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Reginald Fluggelding
Member
well if that sale doesn't work out and the stars align I'm interested in the 60. I'd have to get it remounted for Cambo though so that adds an extra level of stars aligning. It seems every time any of these come up my stars don't align in time
Reginald Fluggelding
Member
I'm assuming that comment was directed at me? Unfortunately as a work tool and with the budget of a humble working photographer (already paying off an IQ40-150) getting an extra camera just for a lens (and then having to swap between cameras onsite) isn't an option. I've been contemplating moving to the RM3Di but that means swapping the rest of my system, selling my WRS-1200 (probably for not much money) etc. and I like my spirit levels. If the RM3Di had spirit levels I do have two kidneys
Reginald Fluggelding
Member
No offence taken, it's a fair call. It's all a bit silly in the end, if SK just made some more they'd sell well. No need for us to hunt around. I could just work it into my budget and when I was ready go and buy one.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
The price of a new 60 XL would be not cheap. Before lenses stopped production in 2012 I paid more somewhere around 5-6k tax included for my 43XL in Alpa mount. Adjust that for inflation and you are easily in the 8-10k territory. To make a small run profitable, with increased costs of labour, materials, especially glass, etc. and a further niching down of the category - ie small volumes - you will get to where we are with modern list prices. All the SK greats perform fantastically on IQ4 and are worth their money.
Reginald Fluggelding
Member
I think 8–10K would be reasonable considering you could walk into a shop and order a brand new one. For one thing it brings business finance into the equation for people like me which is not an option with second hand stuff bought off the internet. SK lenses were generally priced more reasonably than Rodenstock too. It would be interesting to know how much tooling up they would have to do, I can't imagine they just threw everything away. And everything done by CNC only takes up some HDD space. They possibly even have old stock of some of the lens elements. I guess it depends whether they worked the JIT way or did big batches of parts.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Its all gone - I spoke with Greiner about this multiple times over the years. I think only the 120 ASPH is a bit easier to do, and there have been reruns of this one for repro, but 28, 43, 60 XL - no chance for a new batch, ever. The market is too small to make it worthwhile. A new lens would have to be priced well beyond 10k to be worthwhile. Tooling is easily 250k setup, then you need to account for inflation, margins, third party shutters from Rodenstock or your own solution which could cost even more for such lenses as the 43 where you can't fit a x shutter, etc.
Alpa got 50 28XLs! On a planet of what 8bn people? There may be 300 globally of these.
The 28 XL is especially impressive. It is very heavy for its size and a deonstration of technology so to say by SK when the tech cam market was really heating up. They were in it to win optically against Rodenstock's then newly released HR lenses. The problem was that these cutting edge designs became unuseable on 80 MPX CCD and no one knew how useable it all would be again with the IQ4 gen with backside CMOS,
These lenses encapsulate all the decades long experience of SK ...
Alpa got 50 28XLs! On a planet of what 8bn people? There may be 300 globally of these.
The 28 XL is especially impressive. It is very heavy for its size and a deonstration of technology so to say by SK when the tech cam market was really heating up. They were in it to win optically against Rodenstock's then newly released HR lenses. The problem was that these cutting edge designs became unuseable on 80 MPX CCD and no one knew how useable it all would be again with the IQ4 gen with backside CMOS,
These lenses encapsulate all the decades long experience of SK ...
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For Alpa, the 43 (or 35) is my favorite as on the TC it becomes the most comfortable, powerful handheld camera (cf. Paul's posts on a similar setup). (To me it's the only Leica M replacement I've ever liked, and I sold all of my Leica gear to switch to it. I just love the feel of it. I kind of wish they'd make a TC with just a little rise, as the STC just doesn't feel the same in the hand and I don't need the two grips of the SWA. But I digress...)
For landscape, lack of tilt is sometimes annoying, so I wonder how a 43 would sell in today's market. I had a custom SB17 Alpa mount made that allows for tilt with it, kind of like their solution for the 23 SB. I really want to keep the Arca 43 if only to have a spare or to use with this mount. I may have sold some of this kit separately so maybe I'll keep it...
For landscape, lack of tilt is sometimes annoying, so I wonder how a 43 would sell in today's market. I had a custom SB17 Alpa mount made that allows for tilt with it, kind of like their solution for the 23 SB. I really want to keep the Arca 43 if only to have a spare or to use with this mount. I may have sold some of this kit separately so maybe I'll keep it...