Swebo TCS20

[Lorenz(X)]

Hi there,
Lately I was looking for small tech cams again. I had the first Cambo Actus and liked it quite a lot. But I do have a bigger camera now that would necessitate the Actus G, or a Arca Pico or Universalis. Since my experience is limited and I don´t know how much I will really use a tech camera compared to the Tilt/Shift Adapter that I already have, I wanted to try something out that looks quite promissing. The Swebo TCS20. But it is very hard to find any information on the TCS20 or Swebo gear in general.
Well, no other choice but to try it out for myself.

Important to me was, that Swebo is doing it's own thing and developed some kind of modular system with macro rails and various attachements for Tilt/Swing and Shift/Rise+Fall. I have heard good things about the mechanical qualities of various Swebo stuff.

Two days ago the camera arrived. So far, only drytesting and getting to know the camera a litte, I can not yet give a full verdict, but there is a few things that I can say already.

The Camera is quite a bit bigger than the Actus. But it is also stronger. That was an important point to me because of the big camera, and especially because of the lenses I am using. Mamiya 645 and RZ lenses. Especially the latter are quite heavy. So far I think it is a very good compromise for the stuff I want to use it for.

Manufacturing tolerances and mechanical design and quality are very nice. There are no indents for 0 positions, all the mechanics are really free of play, smooth, the scales are very clear and precise. Everything is really nice and sturdy. All the linear movements (focus, shift, rise+fall) are lockable. But with the little lever you can also adjust the amount of "friction" and I think I will not lock everything down when I am flatstitching panos. Tilt and swing are not lockable, but the movement itself is free of play, even when changing the direction of movement there is no reverse play in the threads. I really like that.

I got 4 lensboards with the camera, copal 0, m39, M645 and Mamiya RZ. I tried the latter two and same picture here as with the rest of the camera. Well made, no play, smooth operation. The RZ board has the mechanism to cock the shutter and activate the "time" mode of the lens, wich means the shutter is open and the lens is usable with working aperture.

One thing that interested me a lot, but I could not find out in the conversation with swebo: Do I get some usable movements with the M645 lenses. And it works. No extreme tilts or swings, but for the typical landscape it is fine, and still possible to use all the linear movement of the rear standard that the lens allows when parallel to the sensor plane. It is a bit thight because of the thick bellows, but it is working.

With the RZ lenses there is no limitations at all. Fully usable. Very very nice.

The front standard, that the lens gets attached to, is attached to the focusing mechanism of the main rail. What I like to do is to get as close to the rear standard as possible, there is a hard stop. Then I adjust the rear standard to get infinity focus. With the M645 lenses, is set the focusing helicoid to infinity to get the front and rear standard as far apart from each other as possible for maximum movements.
Its nice to have a common infinity setting for all lenses with the same mount. And it also means that there is still all the movement of the focusing rail available. You can get into serious macro photography with the Swebo too.

I am quite happy with the purchase. It is not as streamlined as a Cambo or Arca Swiss Camera. It's bigger than those cameras too. I did not have a Pico in hand, but heard and read only praise. For now I think this is the right choice for me. I can find out how much I will use a tech cam. If I find out that I would like to use it all the time when I am out for landscapes, then I will save up for a Pico. I can still buy two additional components for the swebo and use it as tech cam with full movements on both standards.
The Swebo is very affordable, and I don´t have the feeling that I have to compromise on quality. The quality is perfectly fine. It is bigger and operation is not as thought out as with the Unviersalis for example. Knobs and levers are a bit all over the place, but to me, mechanically they are logically placed and I will get used to the positions and direction of rotation very soon.

All right, that's it for now. Feel free to contribute with your own experiences, or ask questions if you got some. I will gladly help if I can.

 

[Lorenz(X)]

 

[Lorenz(X)]

 

[Abstraction]

What made you decide on a tc20, rather than tc18 or another model?

 

[Lorenz(X)]

To me, the TCS20 has the nicest combination of features for landscape. It has the movements that I want but not more. And all of them are geared. So I get a package that is comfortable to use, not too too heavy, and without too many moveable parts that might influence accuracy in a negative way.

The TC18 is even bulkier and I think it is not really nice to do the movements by hand, especially in a digital system that requires a lot of accuracy.
The TC1 is too heavy for the field, and I would not use quite a few of the possibilities it has. At least not often.

 

[Abstraction]

The TC18 seems interesting because it allows for rear standard movements. I was under the impression that the movements on the tc18 are geared as well. How are the movements not as nice on the tc18 and you don't find the rear movements useful?

Thanks for your feedback

 

[Lorenz(X)]

The rotating dishes on the TC 18 are not geared. You unlock them, set the angle by hand and lock them again. "Zeroing" the whole camera, repeatedly getting the same setting and doing minor adjustmemts will be challenging. At least.

To me, it makes a lot of sense to have the movements that determine focus on the front, and the movements that control perspective on the rear standard. Tilt and swing on the back will also alter perspective, and introduce diverging lines. Shift, rise and fall on the front can be done on the back too, just in the opposite direction. Having the linear movements at the back has another big advantage: flat stitching with a lens that is stationary. No paralax, it is almost as if you just had a bigger sensor. (Of course it's not working if the light or objects in the recorded scene change too quickly)

 

[Lorenz(X)]

A nice little package arrived today...

I ordered a bag bellows and a recessed Copal 0 lensboard.

Using the M645 lenses was possible, but it was a tight fit for the regular bellows and there was the risk of putting some stress on the mechanics. Now the fit is supercomfortable, I have access to all realisticly used movements. And I do like these lenses, especially the 110 and 150mm and since the rail for the swebo is not long enough for LF lenses with a longer focal length than 150, I will get a 210mm and maybe even something longer. I already had this lens, but my copy kind of disintegrated. Its sharp, not heavy, and an image circle that is big enough for some movements.

The M645 lenses are usually my walk around lenses für the camera plus a simple adapter or a TS adapter for a small "tech cam" setup. So without the Swebo, I usually use a Zeiss Contax 45mm and the 110mm in a little chalkbag around my hip. The 150mm is so cheap that it doesn´t make sense to sell it.

The SK 47mm did not focus to infinity without the recessed lensboard. And with this lensboard but the big bellows, it was still not possible. Now I can use this lens with only the restrictions that come with the camera mount to wich the rear lens element protrudes into. I get 7,5mm of shift. Or a bit less with some tilt or swing.

An update to my experience with the Swebo: I still like it a lot. I think technically it is a good camera, very good for the price. It is a bit on the big side and I already know that at some point I will invest in something smaller. I guess Swebo was pretty busy over the christmas time, I did have to be quite patient communicating with them. There is definitly room for improvement there. It took 3 weeks and several mails just to find out if a bag bellows exists. And another 3 to get it. I did have to adjust the camera mount on the bellows because it didn´t hold the camera straight. But no problem, it was done in a minute by loosening three set screws adjust the camera to the right position, tighten one screw and removing the bellows from the rest of the camera to be able to reach the other two screws.

The whole process of getting the tech cam set up to my wishes is taking quite a bit longer than I expected, but actually I was just a bit very naive when I went down that rabbit hole
But I am getting there. With the Laowa 20mm, the SK 47mm and Rodies with 80,105 and 135mm there is more or less 2 wholes in the lineup to fill, the more urgent one being a lens at about 35mm and then, and not as important something around 60mm. Maybe a SK 60/4 enlarger lens, or a Rodie 65mm

A one more thing, the bag bellows allows the use of all my tech lenses, including the 135, 150 would not be able to focus to anything close to the camera. So in hindsight, I could have ordered the Swebo with just the bag bellows. But I am happy to have the 4 plea bellows as well, it is made of a much thicker leather and is more robust.

 

[Olli Vanhoja]

Thanks for posting this. I ordered the same model but for Hasselblad XCD with a small modification that the manufacturer suggested to me. They turned the standards the other way around, so that focusing is in the rear, and they added a swing to the rear standard too. Unfortunately they can't do any form of rear tilt on this model, as that would misalign the center axis.

While not directly related to the product itself, I'm also happy to report that flash sync with Copal 0 shutters works "perfectly". I'm writing this because this has been a debate for years on various forums.
What you need to do is:
1. Use one of the Cn modes and save it to always utilize the E-shutter etc.
2. First set it to M or A, whatever you prefer for composing and focusing
3. Once the setup is ready switch the custom mode to Mq exposure (but don't save this change)
4. Now you can either use B or T shutter (once again your own preference)
5. Trigger the e-shutter (I prefer to use the Hasselblad cable release to avoid moving anything)
6. Immediately trigger the lens shutter and release the e-shutter (technically you should wait for the flash but you won't be faster than it)

I can reproduce the same exposure with this method every single time. I think the reason why some people claim it doesn't work is that they use one of the live view exposure modes. It appears that the shutter delay can vary a lot in those modes. The only way I was able to make flash work in M mode was that I started the exposure way before triggering the lens. It worked and I couldn't see any difference in noise but it just requires even more careful button sequence.
Finally, I can't understand why the X series mirrorless bodies don't have a flash input if the digital backs can have it. I suppose it's just pointless market segmentation. Of course they want you to buy an X2D II as well as CFV100C.

I hope someone will find this information useful.

 

[Lorenz(X)]

Thanks for sharing Olli!
I would prefer focusing with the rear standard too, don´t miss the rear swing though. The front standard comes much higher than it is now and packing the whole thing for landscape is challenging enough as it is. Especially since I hike or bike everywhere and can´t just put it in the trunk.
I guess I would have a problem with the switch of the standards on the rail. My M645 lenses, and the wide angles have to get really close to the rear standard. Since that can only move forward till the devider inside the rail that takes the focusing thread, I might have a problem with getting the rail into the frame with wide angels. Thats not the case with the original setup that I have. With your setup it's probably no problem because the front standard is positioned higher.

Is this your first technical camera? If not, how does it compare in your opinion to whatever you have used before?
Cheers, Lorenz

 

[Olli Vanhoja]

It's a little bit taller and probably heavier than the standard configuration, but it's quite fast to pack. Although, I don't quite understand how the rear L part is supposed to fit in its bag without using excessive force.
I'm going to try a 58mm Schneider next week. I'm afraid that the bellow might get in the way of movements. So, we'll see.

Btw. were you able to cock the shutter with the recessed C0 board? My shutters seems to have a little bit "too long" lever.

This is the first one for me. Also the Hasselblad is pretty new to me. I remember handling a Hasselblad 5xx when I was a child, but before these cameras the largest format I have ever really used has been 35mm film. Comparing to Canon's TS-E lenses tho, it's so much easier with the movements as I don't need to play with the rotations and there is plenty of room to shift.

 

[Lorenz(X)]

Good points there.

The bag the L-part came in isn't a nice fit. I will try to tetris the camera in a dismantled or partly dismantled configuration into a foam insert with cutouts.

I can´t cock the shutter in the recessed C-0 lensboard. The 58 might work without one, becauso of the longer flange distance. But then it's possible that 4 plea bellows will cause problems. The bag bellows would solve it, but it's another accessory that you have to get. Your camera has the sensor closer to the bayonett, so maybe you are good.
I am using the shutter in the camera so I don´t use the leaf shutter. Most of my lenses don´t have a shutter, they are either lenses for cameras with focal plane shutters, or large format/enlarger lenses in aperture only housings.

 

[Olli Vanhoja]

Good points there.

The bag the L-Part came in isn't a nice fit. I will try to tetris the camera in a dismantled or partly dismantled configuration into a foam insert with cutouts.

I was considering this too but I'll first gain some experience with the system as it is.

I can´t cock the shutter in the recessed C-0 lensboard. The 58 might work without one, becauso of the longer flange distance. But then it's possible that 4 plea bellows will cause problems. The bag bellows would solve it, but it's another accessory that you have to get. Your camera has the sensor closer to the bayonett, so maybe you are good.

I was looking for the bag bellows but it looks like it's not available at the moment for X1D. I wonder if there are any compatible alternatives. Cambo Actus parts look similar but maybe not. Regarding the flange distance, I measured quickly that it could work with either. It's just that I only bought one extra lens board and changing lenses is now very annoying

 

[Lorenz(X)]

I don´t think that Actus parts will fit. The metal parts for mounting lensboard and camera have to be oriented 90° to each other. The mounting parts on the standards are different too, I think the Swebo parts are bigger.
Getting the bag bellows was not straight forward either, there is nothing in the shop that looks like a bag bellows, so I thought he didn´t have one at all. So I wrote him a message. I guess you should do the same.
Key is to write short and comprehensive: I need a bag bellows for a Hasselblad camera and the TCS20 (important because other cameras don´t have 90° rotated mounts, and getting it and finding out it doesn´t fit would be time consuming and a tedious affair to get the correct one)
I guess he can always swap the camera mount on an existing bag bellows. Even if it is already fitted with a different camera mount.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

The Arca-Swiss Pico looks a lot better than this ... milling and finish look "cheap", to say the least.

Where is "SWEBO" from? Never heard of this weird company?

 

[Lorenz(X)]

I would like to have a Pico. Can't afford it comfirtably though..

 

[rdeloe]

The Arca-Swiss Pico looks a lot better than this ... milling and finish look "cheap", to say the least.

Where is "SWEBO" from? Never heard of this weird company?

Swebo is a very small outfit in China. He started out making high quality and affordable stages and rails for macro work, and branched out a few years ago into technical cameras. It's an option for people who are looking for an affordable way into technical cameras.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Alright - an Aliexpress Actus, essentially - I looked the price up and indeed its a Temu like tech cam for a grand and one can only order it via Aliexpress.

The design looks not copied though if I am not mistaken.

 

[Olli Vanhoja]

The Arca-Swiss Pico looks a lot better than this ... milling and finish look "cheap", to say the least.

Where is "SWEBO" from? Never heard of this weird company?

Arca-Swiss is definitely better mechanically and has way better finishing. However, their products are also way more expensive. To me SWEBO looks comparable to Cambo's similar offerings. If I'd have chosen an European manufacturer, I'd have probably chosen Arca-Swiss instead of Cambo.

 

[Olli Vanhoja]

Alright - an Aliexpress Actus, essentially - I looked the price up and indeed its a Temu like tech cam for a grand and one can only order it via Aliexpress.

The design looks not copied though if I am not mistaken.

They also sell on Amazon in North America. Yeah, it's very close to Actus but it doesn't seem to be a clone of anything existing. Actually, the parts look mostly more like a mix & match of gear he was already selling before these cameras.