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X-Shutter useful for landscape work...?

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UliM.

Well-known member
Who has experience with the X-shutter?
With my Rodies inCopal shutters for my tech cam, I have almost exclusively used the IQ4's electronic shutter so far and have actually had no problems (rolling shutter, etc.) when taking landscape photography.
A dealer has now offered me a new 40mm Rodie lens mounted in X shutter at a special price...
X-shutter for landscape, usefull & recommended?
negative aspects which I take into consideration: cable necessary, more weight, more bulky, more "power consumption"...
Thanks for sharing your opinions...
Best, Uli
 
cunim

cunim

Well-known member
UliM. said:
Who has experience with the X-shutter?
With my Rodies inCopal shutters for my tech cam, I have almost exclusively used the IQ4's electronic shutter so far and have actually had no problems (rolling shutter, etc.) when taking landscape photography.
A dealer has now offered me a new 40mm Rodie lens mounted in X shutter at a special price...
X-shutter for landscape, usefull & recommended?
negative aspects which I take into consideration: cable necessary, more weight, more bulky, more "power consumption"...
Thanks for sharing your opinions...
Best, Uli
Click to expand...
I have used the X/138 combo on an Rm3di for field work. Not really landscape but forest shots. Works well and convenient except for one big issue. The X shutter eats the remote shutter release on the iQ4. I hate touching the back to shoot. Yeah, put in a delay but still…. Apparently you can get some sort of breakout box, but at P1 prices

one other issue for field work. There are gaps around the X mount and I worry about dust and water. I tend to leave mine in studio
 
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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
The x shutter a few specific key features:

1) Handheld shots - or from a plane
2) Flash sync
3) Exposure bracketing
4) Remote control via tethering; allows you to quickly change aperture and exposure from a PC
5) Robustness

For landscape work maybe 3) is useful.

For me it is 1) and 4)
 
A

Alkibiades

Well-known member
Dont forget the any repair or calibration work of the X-shutter costs a lot. really lot. sometimes more than the lens itself. And it is a part that will make problems for sure sooner or later, as any electronic parts. I would avoid the use of the x shutter when other options are possible.
 
Mexecutioner

Mexecutioner

Well-known member
I read on a CI article that they have not seen a single X-Shutter failure and I assume they have sold a lot of X-shutter lenses. It being derived from the geospatial systems and been rated for 500K actuations should give us some piece of mind.
 
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Alkibiades

Well-known member
even when the x-shutter would be so great and without failure ( what it is not!), it is a electronic part that some day will give up, for sure. Maybe in 10 years. the Question is will be a shutter change or repair possible in 10 years? I dont know. No electronic shutters that was done before like Schneider electronic, Rollei or Sinar can be repaired now, no one!!! Why it should be different with phase one shutters? We dont even know if phase one will be in photographic buissness in 10 years. When I see how they perfom last 5 years I doubt it very much that their photo stuff can survive. Other parts of their buissness seems to be more profitable.
Anyway any mechanical shutter even made 100 years ago can be repaired and mostly very easy by any good repair station.
What Paul mention above can be also a big problem: the calibration of the rodenstock HR lenses is not easy and they can perform at they max only when they are perfectly calibrated. This can even change after few years without any strong reasons. I know from x-shutter users that they have these problems as they can happen also with Copal shutters or focusing mount. New Copal shutter costs maybe 300 euro not 4K.
 
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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
If you are not stuck with gen I XT lenses you will be able to swap the X shutter with an AU Rodenstock in 10y.

It is advisable to upgrade gen I lenses to gen II.
 
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anyone

Well-known member
Alkibiades said:
No electronic shutters that was done before like Schneider electronic, Rollei or Sinar can be repaired now, no one!!!
Click to expand...
While I in general agree on your analysis of electronic shutters, I know that Schneider Electronic Shutters are repaired by Foto Wiese in Hamburg. At least they said they did when I sold one electronic shutter to them. Disclaimer: I cannot recommend them, as I just sold one shutter to them and the experience was rather mediocre.
 
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J

John Black

Active member
Interesting topic in regards to whether X-Shutters maintain a more stable calibration than mechanical shutters. Frankly, that's not something I had considered. What changed between a Generation I vs a Generation II X shutter? Is there an easy to visually determine if a given lens is version I vs II.

As for the longer term, that's curious topic to consider. It's reasonable to assume global shutters will be common place some day, or maybe advances in electronic shutter rear out speeds for larger sensor will keep the rolling shutter challenges in check (I took some pix a month of wind turbines - the blades ended up looking like a pin wheel).
 
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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
The global shutter tech is still very far away for ultra large sensors while maintaining dynamic range like in the IQ4.

Curtent implementations come with a hefty DR penalty and at 250 megapixels it’s even more tough.

The difference between gen I and gen II is that gen I is not copal spec meaning the XT gen I lenses can never be degraddd to normal lenses. You cannot convert them to other systems by removing the x shutter and adding a Copal.

It is scandalous, frankly.
 
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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
I think especially in the studio or handheld / airplane photography are the main use cases; stationary landscape / architecture should be fine with Copal or AU, although Copal shutters are not made anymore and if you get one second hand you need to be sure that it is planar as even new ones weren't perfect ex factory.

AU shutters are incredibly stable and a good alternative, but you lose the ability to shoot film and they cost north of 1k.
 
A

Alkibiades

Well-known member
anyone said:
While I in general agree on your analysis of electronic shutters, I know that Schneider Electronic Shutters are repaired by Foto Wiese in Hamburg. At least they said they did when I sold one electronic shutter to them. Disclaimer: I cannot recommend them, as I just sold one shutter to them and the experience was rather mediocre.
Click to expand...
Foto Wiese is a mechanical repair station- he can only solve mechanical problems. Maybe he can solve some easy electric problems, when some contact or cables make troubles.He will not have the ability to fix electronic parts, nobody can do it. You would need new parts to replace the damaged, but they dont exist.
 
vieri

vieri

Well-known member
UliM. said:
Who has experience with the X-shutter?
With my Rodies inCopal shutters for my tech cam, I have almost exclusively used the IQ4's electronic shutter so far and have actually had no problems (rolling shutter, etc.) when taking landscape photography.
A dealer has now offered me a new 40mm Rodie lens mounted in X shutter at a special price...
X-shutter for landscape, usefull & recommended?
negative aspects which I take into consideration: cable necessary, more weight, more bulky, more "power consumption"...
Thanks for sharing your opinions...
Best, Uli
Click to expand...
The X-Shutter would be useful if you wanted to control both aperture and shutter speed from the IQ4, without having to go to the lens to set aperture (and having to open it / close it to focus and compose), and if you needed EXIF without the need to input aperture manually on the IQ4.

Also, it would be a plus if your subject matter will suffer from the effects of rolling shutter (e.g., if you photograph cityscapes with cars passing in front of your camera).

That said, in my experience for landscape photography the best solution with the IQ4 is lenses in aperture-only configuration and electronic shutter. Lenses are smaller and lighter, making your bag easier to carry, and the electronic shutter plus frame averaging work perfectly (no rolling shutter).

Hope this helps, best regards

Vieri
 
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John Black

Active member
Phase One could make the Copal shutters / Aperture Only units more enjoyable to use in the field (and elsewhere) by adding fields for -

• Focal Length
• Shift X value
• Shift Y value
• Tilt Value

They have aperture, so why focal length was left off makes zero sense to me... PO support replies have been, "yeah, alot of people have asked for that..."

Regarding aperture-only (AO) units, when it comes to black frames, the lens has to be manually covered. I use some pretty large filters, so that's not so easy to do. It's a clumsy solution where it's pretty easy to inadvertently move the tripod and undo my efforts in leveling it, truing up the camera, etc. I prefer to closing the Copal shutter to do the black frames vs manually covering the lens. That just my preference.
 
J

John Black

Active member
Paul Spinnler said:
The difference between gen I and gen II is that gen I is not copal spec meaning the XT gen I lenses can never be degraddd to normal lenses. You cannot convert them to other systems by removing the x shutter and adding a Copal.
Click to expand...
Is there a way to know whether a lens is Gen 1 vs Gen 2?
 
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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
If there's no Phase One logo embossing on the X shutter you have a Gen I lens and X shutter, meaning your lens will forever be married to the IQ4 and IQ5 platforms.

Because they know customers would complain it was never communicated even that there's an MKII.

The XT was rushed to market so to say with non copal spec shutters back in 2019 in the context of a sale of the company, which is why the products had some deficiencies - e.g. no tilt as there was no time to develop it and non Copal spec shutters.

This means the Gen I lenses are Rodenstock modified Phase I lenses.
 
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