Changes coming

[Paul Spinnler]

Pls. dont get me wrong guys – the idea is not to cut down the image threads. Its nice as an addition.

I was more coming from the point that I understand the difficulty the ownership faces to make this a sustainable and also growing place that's financially doing great. So in my view it would be a mix of maximum streamlining the sections to be focused on MF and LF, but to cut nothing away if you see what I mean. There should still be the fun with MF images thread and then the other pic threads and the smaller format threads.

I was coming more from the perspective to say you need to follow the fact that there is a lot of money spent on photography as a whole from people loving it as a hobby and they come here to inform themselves about the lenses, gear, etc. So it makes totally sense for manufacturers and dealers to support this resouce.

I am just saying that to all of a sudden try to go full on art and image sharing would not help financially nor growth.

On Instagram I see great imagery, but it is not a longform place to discuss the lenses or perspective.

So I think adding editorial content around gear, technique and printing is wise and the best shot at growth.

 

[Ai_Print]

I would like to agree but no. with respect I disagree. If someone at a given moment takes a picture of an animal with £$10K equipment, who am I to complain about how he/she uses it?
It is ,I think,, not reasonable for me to expect everyone to be top notch photographers.
I agree that not all posted photos are "goog enough" but they represent low nomber, to you most of them are bad. That is where the contrast it.
@AJ, yes Sir, even with my basic level of education, I am aware of what "context" means.
Regards.

Photos that are uploaded take up exponentially more room on a server than text only posts. So when you have a topic on a new Nikon macro lens in that one person alone has dumped nearly 50 super boring photos on a 5 page thread, well that “people off the street coming into the hotel lobby for the free coffee and donuts” effect starts to weigh a lot on the management when no one is paying for a room but are still taking up nearly all the room in the warm and cozy lobby so to speak.

So while you are right that as long as it is fair game as condoned by management to come on in and toss your whole roll of new camera snapshots across the coffee table in said warm and cozy hotel lobby, it might not stay fair game for long if they had a different vision in mind for the place and those people are not showing up because they are not digging the vibe, you know?

Read the room folks, Olaf and company tried to install more areas in the “lobby” for genuine creativity in a way in that it could actually be celebrated and acknowledged in an elevated way and it largely fell on deaf ears. Since costs are rising on everything, they are proposing to put more focus on what they feel their marquee areas of interest are and see if that draws back more of the clientele that could sustain the place. For now, they are looking to do that by casting off other areas that several sites draw a lot more people in that topic than the dozen or so semi active members who frequent the joint.

With the trend in camera enthusiast sites being generally a downward trajectory, this experiment might not work. But if they have more up their sleeve than turning out the lights in some rooms but increasing it in others, well maybe they will set a trend?

 

[pegelli]

adding

I think that's the key word Paul.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Well put, AI_Print.

 

[pegelli]

Photos that are uploaded take up exponentially more room on a server than text only posts. So when you have a topic on a new Nikon macro lens in that one person alone has dumped nearly 50 super boring photos on a 5 page thread, well that “people off the street coming into the hotel lobby for the free coffee and donuts” effect starts to weigh a lot on the management when no one is paying for a room but are still taking up nearly all the room in the warm and cozy lobby so to speak.

So while you are right that as long as it is fair game as condoned by management to come on in and toss your whole roll of new camera snapshots across the coffee table in said warm and cozy hotel lobby, it might not stay fair game for long if they had a different vision in mind for the place and those people are not showing up because they are not digging the vibe, you know?

First you create a caricature (I have seen hardly anything like that happening here) and then you critique the caricature which has very little bearing on what's actually happening, not a very useful way of having a sensible discussion in my mind. And secondly, I wouldn't mind if they charge for posting images on their site to get some payback on their server cost. A lot of people link from external sites (Flickr, SmugMug or the likes) anyway so that doesn't cost anything to the site other than the very small storage of the text, so people can choose to pay for storing on GetDPI or for storing on some other site.

Read the room folks, Olaf and company tried to install more areas in the “lobby” for genuine creativity in a way in that it could actually be celebrated and acknowledged in an elevated way and it largely fell on deaf ears. Since costs are rising on everything, they are proposing to put more focus on what they feel their marquee areas of interest are and see if that draws back more of the clientele that could sustain the place. For now, they are looking to do that by casting off other areas that several sites draw a lot more people in that topic than the dozen or so semi active members who frequent the joint.

With the trend in camera enthusiast sites being generally a downward trajectory, this experiment might not work. But if they have more up their sleeve than turning out the lights in some rooms but increasing it in others, well maybe they will set a trend?

I've seen that happening and have posted in these threads but given the very low response and activity there it's not a fun experience. My proposal would therefore be to suppress the gear/brand specific rooms and only have catagories by genre or subject, that will drive more people there rather than staying in their historical/comfortable brand driven rooms. My question is what makes > 33x44 mm sensors and equipment so special that you think you can create a dedicated site for that with a growing membership, while non-smartphone photography is becoming more of a niche hobby and MF+ is a very small niche of that.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Ok in the end maybe we just all somehow love GetDPI for how it is. Great tech threads and hit or miss daily surprises in the pic threads! And a nice family vibe

 

[cunim]

What @darr said. I also liked her comment about photo books. I thought I was the only one dozing off when confronted by stacks of them. To my jaded eye, great photos must be viewed singly, reflect great skill and have interesting provenance. Not a lot of those around so, rather than pore over books looking for the odd keeper, I prefer to see what hobbyists can produce on a site like this. In it for fun, not awe.

That is why I may disagree about the value of amateurish work on this site. The membership tends to be older, more laid back, and is made up of a large proportion of people with interests other than photography. For example, it is quite possible to be a keen photographer because you are an engineer interested in the optics and the sensors. The photographs are just a way to enjoy using and mastering the technology. This type of member is more common on advanced gearish sites (what we are) in which the tools set an entry barrier because they are rare, expensive or both. It is that common interest in esoteric gear that draws me to a merger between Getdpi and LFF. The specific skills may be too different for that to happen but site management should keep looking for a compatible partner. What about Lula? They seem to be attempting a resurrection - if there is anything left to resurrect.

Yes, there is a fair number of mediocre photos here. With luck, we will all improve over time and, just as we don't want to discourage serious people using any high quality gear, we need input from those just starting out. Perhaps we can help them improve. I keep coming back to the photo evaluation issue. Pros don't need forums. Their success is defined by money and public acclaim. The rest of us seek out other metrics. Sites like this one let us measure ourselves against other hobbyists. That requires a larger body of contributors and, I think, this site is trying to cater to that need. Merger, threads that showcase favorite images, subscription to critical services from artists in residence, these are all tactics that seem plausible to me,

 

[Godfrey]

Photos that are uploaded take up exponentially more room on a server than text only posts. ...

This is true if you always depend upon people uploading the image files to this server.. But if you use your own server to deliver the image data and just link to your images, a photo post takes no more server resources than a txt post: the browser at the user machine retrieves the data from the link. All the server has to do is tell the browser where the data is.

this is why all of the photos I post are located on flickr.com and only link to in my posts here and there and everywhere.

G

 

[Ai_Print]

What @darr said. I also liked her comment about photo books. I thought I was the only one dozing off when confronted by stacks of them. To my jaded eye, great photos must be viewed singly, reflect great skill and have interesting provenance. Not a lot of those around so, rather than pore over books looking for the odd keeper, I prefer to see what hobbyists can produce on a site like this. In it for fun, not awe.

So you go straight from books that don't do it for you, skip the other ways of seeking out the very best work and decide to only relate to what hobby types can produce? I really don't understand this. That is like owning a Martin acoustic guitar in the hobby sense and never listening to any other music except for what you and your friends can produce. There are *so* many great books new and old that are easy to peruse and utterly amazing in content. Sure, not every bite is as tasty as the others, but to reference the music angle above, there are chord changes in a great song that may not do it for you as much as the rest of the piece, but you oblige the artist that need to transition and to keep it their personal jam. And that is just books, there are many other ways to experience truly great work...if you choose to actually seek it out.

This just proves my suspicion of how in denial of so many things camera enthusiasts are in when it comes to their small circles of mutual praise.
That is so tragic it is depressing, I think I need a break from this. I'm sure you all do from me.

 

[cunim]

@Ai_Print , don't be depressed and please don't go away. This is a topic about bringing more photographers to Getdpi. That means attracting a broad variety of people, including those for whom the interest in photography is casual. For example I am a scientist, not a photographer, and those professions see the world differently. I was passionate about my research questions, not about the many thousands of images I made investigating them. Does my world view prevent me from enjoying photography? No.

I think Getdpi can attract more people who (like me) enjoy the process of photography without being artistically relevant to the world at large. After all, my mother was the last person to tell me that I was talented. Perhaps because of that, I have a deep respect for the real artists. Despite that respect, I may be unlikely to buy your books but, then, you don't buy mine either.

 

[B L]

Look, everyone is free to like whatever. Its just my view and I've even mentioned that it doesn't matter.

My point is: I just have a hunch that this forum's future source of financial survival won't exactly be the next tree or dog picture and that at the core it is more about gear, tech and maybe in the future printing, so actually I was underscoring the conclusion of the ownership that the creative corner is maybe not the forté to bank on.

On the tech and gear side sponsors can address the community of enthusiasts buying the gear and equipment and its a great way to exchange info on that.

We'll see how it develops!

If it didnt matter then why all this fuss?

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I was chiming in on a post by AI_Print to which I wholeheartedly agree; at the same time I don't want to assume that my view is the only valid one, but one among others.

I just agreed that there's too much mediocrity being posted and that the strength of getdpi lies in the tech threads and not on the pics.

 

[Knorp]

Don’t underestimate the B.S. section …

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Yes, the FS section is actually the hidden star. I see a lot of people just lurking there in the hops of a great deal.

 

[lightnmagic]

This thread needs a biz model .......storage becomes a problem when there is no revenue model but with an ever-increasing cost........and problems hold the key to the solution the direction a forum like this should be heading ........

A subscription based model may not work.............I dont want to pay just to get some likes ..if thats the case I need to see a therapist .....lol

I want to improve my skills more than where they are now .....I am sure all of us would love that to become better at our gear/techniques etc

Now using a platform like this have Nikon/sony sponsor a workshop by a famous photographer and offer exclusive prices of their latest cameras .....have Nikon
sponsor ads .....Just thinking out aloud here.......This will attract people which in turn attracts sponsors ..More revenue now you are not thinking about server space

Organize photo walks , contests....make a video of how someone from this forum was sponsored to go on a trip and post on youtube /twitter etc

This is how you get traction ......make a Jingle advertise in the National Geographic channel contest someday .......To become the possibilitys one must dare to dream

We need a Dream for this forum....If the moderators /owners will include us in that dream then together we all can make this a beautiful space for like minded individuals to explore their creativity ....develop skills

Life works well when you base it on inclusion rather than exclusion

 

[4season]

GetDPI is already effectively paywalled, in the sense that premium content is offered to subscribers of Elements and Medium Format magazines. And the bulk of the free forums are built upon user-submitted content. The latter varies in quality, but the price can't be beat! There's always going to be some folks who are keen to over-share mediocre content, and while editors can bar such content from the magazines, it's less clear what to do about them in the context of a forum, when their only offense is being tedious.

I got to thinking about another site I frequent, Audio Science Review: It seems to be thriving when other audio-related fora seem moribund. And got to thinking that ASR offers value which is scarce in competing hobby fora by examining the science of sound reproduction. Which might deflate some egos invested in the old subjective high-end audio racket, but it also opens up a number of new avenues for exploration which are accessible to nearly everyone, such as 55 USD ear buds which perform admirably well by any standard.

As for growing GetDPI's membership by narrowing it's focus (shrug) I guess you could try it and see if it has the desired effect. It seems counterintuitive to me, but I am no expert in these matters.

 

[4season]

I used to enjoy the old Leica-Users mailing list. Originally there was no wiki, no archive, and no forum, just a Majordomo mailing list. And I preferred it that way, because content arriving in one's inbox was guaranteed fresh daily. Because while a wiki or never-expiring forum content can serve as a knowledge base for frequently asked questions, I wonder if it also discourages lurkers from becoming active members.

 

[Ai_Print]

@Ai_Print , don't be depressed and please don't go away. This is a topic about bringing more photographers to Getdpi. That means attracting a broad variety of people, including those for whom the interest in photography is casual. For example I am a scientist, not a photographer, and those professions see the world differently. I was passionate about my research questions, not about the many thousands of images I made investigating them. Does my world view prevent me from enjoying photography? No.

I think Getdpi can attract more people who (like me) enjoy the process of photography without being artistically relevant to the world at large. After all, my mother was the last person to tell me that I was talented. Perhaps because of that, I have a deep respect for the real artists. I may be unlikely to buy your books but, then, you don't buy mine either.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply and I apologize for my cut to the quick response earlier. There are many turbulent currents among us all in the world of photography right now and in the world period. I am very much in a transitional period of my career and despite the amazing, unwavering emotional and financial support of my wife in it all, I have very real concerns of where it all goes next. I am also highly protective of the hundreds year old construct of what makes a great photograph, I’ll defend the broad notion of that till the day I die.

I am not saying anyone should go out and buy Luc Daylahaye’s book Winterreise as a means to gain inspiration. But if you try to understand me better, I will try my best to understand you as well. I do think for the sake of keeping the peace here I will take a break. I have some projects I need to tend to, it’s best I immerse my self in them because in a way that is why I do photography in the first place. I make excuses to live in multiple dimensions of my being, the ramparts of my imagination that through photography, likely saved my life.

 

[pegelli]

I think a subscription model for storing images and editorial content is fine, a paywall for the general member forum/contributions will kill the site quickly i.m.o.

But a donation model will work, I've donated in the past for GetDPI (when the site was taken over by Olaf) and if money is a problem a little more communication by the site officials will make me donate again and I'm sure there are many more who will be doing the same.

 

[Ai_Print]

I think a subscription model for storing images and editorial content is fine, a paywall for the general member forum/contributions will kill the site quickly i.m.o.

But a donation model will work, I've donated in the past for GetDPI (when the site was taken over by Olaf) and if money is a problem a little more communication by the site officials will make me donate again and I'm sure there are many more who will be doing the same.

I donated $25 my self today.