END OF THE YEAR MESSAGE AND FUTURE OF GETDPI.COM

[f8orbust]

My 2c: LuLa introduced a $1 a month charge and the site looks a mess and the traffic compared to a few years ago is way down. PhotoPXL is a free and well designed site, but very few users and little traffic. Maybe the days of photographic forums (at least, the ones that aren't front ends for large retailers like dpreview/Amazon) with enough traffic to generate decent ad revenue are over (if indeed they were ever there in the first place). So, I just don't see any value in charging for any aspect of GetDPI in its present form.

In order to add value and encourage subscribers, why not combine the forum with medium format magazine, and pitch it at the same price point as something like On Landscape in the UK or Lenswork online (in the US). Which means we're talking about $59 a year rather than $159. A big (63%) drop I know, but it would encourage new subscribers. Me, I'm never going to pay $159 a year for an online magazine, but there's a good chance I'd pay $59 for a medium format magazine/GetDPI bundle. Better to have 37% of something than 100% of nothing.

Finally, if nothing else changes, at the very least I'd change the name.

Happy Festivus everyone !

Jim

 

[Paratom]

As a long time member I mainly come here, because of medium format ‚exchange‘. Its one of the few phtoto forums, where it alllready feels like coming home, since many ‚members‘ come here for a long time and its very respectfull and good communication.
I still do like, that there are other forums as well. And the buy/sell area is very good as well.
I would leave the forums structure as it is. I would leave iit free, eventually take a fee for buy/ sell adds? (That's what Leica forum is doing)
and offer a premium membership or possibility for donations. I don't know the financial situation. Charges might decrease the number of people joining might reduce the quality of the forum.
As someone who is in the mid fifties I have one comment… would be nice to additionally include more younger photographers in the discussions. I am not sure how to achieve this though. Its allways good to have people of different ages in a group. ( maybe there are not summany younger people who can afford medium format)
Maybe one way would also be to make one forum "professionals".
One the other side - maybe the mood and positive level of communication is that good (IMO) here, because many of us are a little more "settled".
I value very much experienced people, would hurt to have some young and revolutionary thinking guys as well !)
And maybe its possible to make the forum more international. If you look at buy/sell its 90% US. Maybe you can gain some more forum members in Europ? Maybe also sponsors from there?
Anyways, thank you guys for keeping this going!

 

[anyone]

One thing is money - I understood that CI thankfully supports here. Many of us are happy customers of CI, therefore that's a good match. By keeping the forum free of charge, the threshold to become a member stays low, and those of us who are already long time here won't drop out. For the forum sponsors it may be essential to reach a good part of medium format photographers.

The other part is content. The pictures posted here are nice (in all formats!), and there is a lot of knowledge around medium format gear around. It would be nice to have more content about inspirational photographers, exhibitions, books, and the like - everything related to the more creative, less technical aspect of photography, and perhaps even a discussion about arts and photography.

 

[schuster]

I've been a MF shooter for more than a half century, and that is still my "focus," but phone cameras, and associated software, are already equalling or bettering "standalone cameras" in many respects, and their capabilities are multiplying at a dizzying rate. Expanding that aspect of imaging on this site, from the perspective of "serious" users here, would benefit current members, as well as draw new members of a similar skill level.

$ - I'm fine with a modest annual fee, especially if experienced content writers, or "guest authors," are recruited for periodic articles.

 

[KC_2020]

I'd be curious to see what the current demographics of this forum are.

Age ?

Format(s) used ?

Professional or not ?

How many active users out of the total forum database are there ?

The answers to those questions should help point out the direction this forum has gone as well as where it hasn't gone.

FM survives on a fee for selling but they have a much larger, more active user base. The design/format of the board itself is about as antiquated as can be and perhaps that's kept the cost to operate it down because its bandwidth requirements are low.

LL has slowly disintegrated since Michael Reichman's death. It was sort of working until Josh forced himself to the helm and demonstrated that he's not the right person for the job. But they do have articles written by some very competent authors. What they get in return can't be based on the $1 a month subscriptions. It may just be the authors trade for visibility.

Leica user forums consistently demonstrate that they will pay for services even is that's just discussion with their tribe.

Younger photo/video enthusiasts are on Reddit, tiktoc, dpreviw and ISO1200magazine on Instagram.

What would the attraction for a younger participant be here ? Discussions about medium format ? I doubt it. They're using their phones and smaller formats with video being the primary interest.

I was a professional, commercial shooter for over 30 years. I was a member of AMSP where you have to show competent, professional work to join. I think it's interesting to read what they now list as the benefits of membership are now. Perhaps you can glean some ideas from their approach.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Fees for the B&S section would deter me, to be honest. I rarely sell anything, but crossing this line of introducing fees would not go down well, I think. It is precisely the fact that anyone can quickly make a post and sell something without a fuss that is appreciated. It is more of a principle thing. You have fees everywhere and eBay has become a greedy place, but still, you get the highest sales values there, I suppose, which is why you will find a mint Superachromat for 10k+ there, but not here.

The value of the forum is based on the time spent by its users on posting content, so the owners already benefit from a lot of free work of the community so to say if you think it through. All the well-known members who come back here daily and respond to user's questions, etc. - they don't own a part of the forum nor do they have equity in CI or the magazine ...

Clearly, nothing is free in this world, and servers / anti spam, etc. does cost real money; but then again there's now the medium format magazine everyone knows about also by association with this forum, so there probably already is a good indirect cross-financing of the forum by way of that and people accept that as an implicit contract, so to say. People also know and appreciate CI as a re-seller of choice.

If in the future one has to pay to post in something that's owned by someone else it is game over though as no one is paying the contributors; so would just build on the current model and expand on the mag and maybe add an editorial section for a small fee - would not touch the core forum functionality with any fees in my humble opinion.

 

[Photon42]

First of all thank you very much for having given the forum a nice makeover some time back and of course for running / saving it. I very much enjoy the forum as it is now.

I came here for medium format but also enjoy glancing over the fence into other areas, where I then often see the same faces I generally very much like the way people interact with each other. That, the photos and the wealth of knowledge makes it for me a very attractive place. If you can, keep it free (including the marketplace). Else, I would indeed start with a marketplace fee. Check rangefinder.com maybe for that, too.

Focussing on Medium Format? Well - that is something the users do or they do not. I do not think adjustments to the structure will change their focus.

The name? Well - I knew already what DPI meant when I joined the forum, but still found the name not very descriptive for the content. It is maybe a nerdy name, but does it matter in the end? I do not think so. It became a product name long back, I guess, so why bother.

 

[dave.gt]

Change for change sake? I think not. What exactly is your direction you want to go? Please let us know what you are thinking. I am sure you have a general direction in mind, but have chosen to keep it under a veil for now.

And before I forget, let me be sure to thank you for all the work you have put into this forum. I am sure it has been expensive, and it has been much appreciated!

I have very dear and cherished friends on this forum. I am forever grateful for them and honored to know them. Each of you know who you are and I am humbled to call you my friends. You have meant so much to me.

However, the day I am charged for participating and sharing my own images, thoughts, time, and limited expertise is the day I am gone. There is a certain limit to my time and energy, not to mention my willingness to pay to simply “walk in the door”. If a gatekeeper is what you want, then I’m out. And I am sure I will be of no great loss to anyone.

Be that as it may, I believe that each person is unique and should be treasured. These days, we have lost the importance of the individual. Everywhere we look, it is that way. In my opinion, each of us already contribute our own images, if little else including a lot of time, and the contemplation of us paying fees is different than just sitting in a couch watching Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney, and countless other entertainment “sources”. How many additional yearly or monthly charges will I sign up for? As few as possible.

Personally, I am surprised it took this long for these “major changes” to be discussed. We knew it would happen of course. Change is important, right? So is the photographer, in making an image, or contributing his intellectual property. But being charged for it? No, thank you.

You asked, and you have my honest opinion and answer. I am done with bleeding from a thousand razor cuts monetarily, and being asked to keep adding more costs. Life is very short for us and it is time for simplicity and enjoying each other. Our time remaining will be better far better spent doing what we choose, so I choose a bright line…

I hope to continue to participate in the future, but not if I have to pay for it.

I wish the forum well, whatever your decision is.

 

[Swissblad]

I like the idea of having a Full Frame section and a Smaller Format section - both brand agnostic.
A gallery directly showing current images, without having to click a forum topic would be nice.
Thanks for your fine work!

 

[AndyPtak]

Although I own cameras across four formats MF is what brings me back here every day and it is the people on that forum that make it what it is. To be honest though, you'd probably lose me if it was a paid site. Might I suggest a nominal monthly/annual fee for those who wish to sell items on the site. I believe that Fred Miranda and Lumious Landscape do that. Since Michael Reichman died though and Kevin is no longer involved I rarely go to Lula anymore. It just lost the spirit for me. That can happen to any site and forum for a variety of reasons though. Good luck Olaf as you consider the future.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Would abstain from levying B&S fees.

It's not that this is like a stock exchange with huge volumes. If someone posts an odd lens board, rare Sinaron Digital lens or a P65 for that matter the "revenues" to be garnered from fees are not going to make any difference IMHO.

The current model is already smart – make people aware of the magazines and CI ...

 

[bensonga]

Major changes to come? How about fixing the problem in the current site re images that were embedded in older posts which no longer appear? These are numerous and I'm not talking about broken links to external sites. We lost alot of history of images shared on GetDPI with the transition to the current platform.

Personally, I like the forum structure with sub-forums for formats/systems that are smaller than MF (ie Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fuji, 4/3rds, Other etc). More than anything, it is the people here who keep me coming back to check in and contribute (not as often as I did in the past however).

I would pay a "reasonable" monthly/annual subscription fee to maintain the site in its current form, as I do to support a few other forums etc. As much as I enjoy viewing the MF forum posts/images as I still shoot MF film and digital now and then, I might not pay an access fee to view posts on the forum if it was MF only.

Perhaps consider Patreon for people (like myself) who would contribute to support the site. It might not provide enough money to generate a profit, but could defray costs of maintaining the site. I am a regular Patreon contributor to other photo related websites for this very purpose.

That said....I've made a New Year's resolution to check in AND contribute more often to GetDPI in 2023. It has been my favorite photo related forum since I first joined so many years ago. It is the only forum where I feel that people I've known here for many years are truly friends.

Gary

 

[gurtch]

Change for change sake? I think not. What exactly is your direction you want to go? Please let us know what you are thinking. I am sure you have a general direction in mind, but have chosen to keep it under a veil for now.

And before I forget, let me be sure to thank you for all the work you have put into this forum. I am sure it has been expensive, and it has been much appreciated!

I have very dear and cherished friends on this forum. I am forever grateful for them and honored to know them. Each of you know who you are and I am humbled to call you my friends. You have meant so much to me.

However, the day I am charged for participating and sharing my own images, thoughts, time, and limited expertise is the day I am gone. There is a certain limit to my time and energy, not to mention my willingness to pay to simply “walk in the door”. If a gatekeeper is what you want, then I’m out. And I am sure I will be of no great loss to anyone.

Be that as it may, I believe that each person is unique and should be treasured. These days, we have lost the importance of the individual. Everywhere we look, it is that way. In my opinion, each of us already contribute our own images, if little else including a lot of time, and the contemplation of us paying fees is different than just sitting in a couch watching Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney, and countless other entertainment “sources”. How many additional yearly or monthly charges will I sign up for? As few as possible.

Personally, I am surprised it took this long for these “major changes” to be discussed. We knew it would happen of course. Change is important, right? So is the photographer, in making an image, or contributing his intellectual property. But being charged for it? No, thank you.

You asked, and you have my honest opinion and answer. I am done with bleeding from a thousand razor cuts monetarily, and being asked to keep adding more costs. Life is very short for us and it is time for simplicity and enjoying each other. Our time remaining will be better far better spent doing what we choose, so I choose a bright line…

I hope to continue to participate in the future, but not if I have to pay for it.

I wish the forum well, whatever your decision is.

Plus 1. I could not say it any better. He nailed everything.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I think it could also be instructive to look at what happened at LuLa and what lessons may be learned regarding the dynamics of making changes to a forum which in my view can have a similar character to a well-known "living room" of friends and where changes might lead to unexpected results sometimes.

Back in the day LuLa was my favorite forum and by far the more active one, mainly because of the editorial slant given to it by Michael Reichmann and the excellent content he curated both in video and editorial form. He basically made his money in TelCo I think and ran the site as a passion project – one could feel this passion throughout.

Once he passed and the other guy Raber took over the mood shifted. It became more commercial, from the feeling a bit centered on him, and then all of the sudden the magic was gone. I remember seeing ads in the forum between the individual posts (OMG) and the new "owner" introducing a new direction incl. focus on workshops (to make money), printing (Raber was really into this, I think) and the 1 USD per month fee. Not sure if at the beginning the 1 USD were a requirement to access the forum or whether it just let one avoid the ads.

Then there was this other guy who was quite well-off – I think an ex private equity guy – who also came into the mix somehow, but pls. correct me if I am wrong. In any case the forum's whole atmosphere shifted (pls. again excuse if I forgot the detailed sequence of events / aspects) and this was because of the new people in charge who, at least this was my perception, had a strong need to put themselves forward whereas ML was just there as a sort of grandfather figure with copious amounts of wisdom and liked by everyone.

Then there was a infighting with the son I think taking the business back and then it went completely downhill from there. I quit once Raber took over.

This is purely from remembrance and the facts might have played out differently, but the key takeaway is that a forum is a delicate thing in the sense that larger changes quickly lead to a demise if they are not well thought out.

Especially the people make a key difference and without the people a forum is nothing.

Look at LuLa today – despite the backlog of brilliant content, the fantastic brand name, etc. once Reichmann was gone it somehow went all downhill and I think it had to do with some of the changes introduced back in the day. From daily check-ins I went to two, to three times a year when the random Google query leads me there. At this stage the old LuLa is nothing more than a fond memory.

IMHO one could charge for top editorial content and I urge to look at fototv.de, which is a German membership site which thrives since many years with premium video content around photography. They have a lot of good documentaries on contemporary photographers, for example, but clearly this requires a lot of work and time, but maybe there are also synergies with the magazines, I wonder? Like one could accompany an article with a VIMEO video of the photographer which is being portrayed?

 

[AndyPtak]

To add to my previous post on this subject. I understand that there are associated costs in hosting and administrating this site and as Paul said, Michael Reichman of LuLa was personally wealthy enough that he could and did run it as a passion project. God love him for that. However, most of us are not that fortunate and I understand that some change is bound to happen on this site. If you think about though, a site like this is like a magazine where you have Advertising (to pay the bills) and Editorial (which is the actual product that draws readers in). I see the Forums as being the Editorial - we the contributors supply this. As far as the Advertising goes, on the site we have sponsorship (thanks Capture Integration) and Medium Format Magazine, (thank you Olaf). In my view, Sponsorship, Advertising and Workshops are the obvious income sources. We, the contributors to the Forums should be a valuable audience and we will continue to be so as long as we get what we came here for. I'd hate to see this site go the way of LuLa. It doesn't have to.

 

[bab]

I’m sure the right path is dpi acquiring more awareness thru other social media sites. Teaming up with industry manufacturers of photographic equipment with not only newer future offerings but past offerings and the why behind Releases or decisions.this will create meaningful comments by members.

 

[Ray Harrison]

First Olaf, thank you! And also to my friends at Capture Integration for their on-going support. GetDPI is a super valuable resource and one of the friendliest places out there with folks so willing to answer questions and provide expertise. I also think Medium Format Magazine and Elements are super valuable and both are more than worth the subscription fee, to me.

You’ve asked us to come forward with ideas that can help make this initiative sustaining. Clearly, you believe that changes need to happen to make it so or you wouldn’t have come forward. The OnLandscape model is intriguing but in a sense, you have two published magazines. Maybe something like tiers:

* Free GetDPI (sort of as it is today)
* Level 1 - some sort of fee that gets access to some content (some TBD number of articles) from a magazine of the user’s choice
* Level 2 - some sort of fee that gets access to some content (again, some TBD number of articles) from both magazines
* Level 3 - subscription to one magazine, price TBD
* Level 4 - subscription to both, price TBD.

I’d leave the TBDs to you. In a sense, it’s the Level 1 and 2 that might mean the most since we’ve already got people that subscribe to one or both and of course enjoy it for free. Another approach is PhotoPXL’s, where they do “donation levels” and people can get badges for their level of support.

It might be worth considering extending relationships to other companies at different levels too, offering more exposure for more cash. Crude, but that’s a possibility too.

 

[Michiel Schierbeek]

A bit more focus on themes instead of camera brands would have my preference. Like this, the focus could be more related to photography itself. Most interesting photographers heve projects/ themes they work on. They are storytellers who manifest certain things happening in the world. The world doesn't only exist of beautifull flowers and landscapes. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with that I enjoy them as well but I would like to see some more engagement. For example; if someone photographs the slumbs of Manila, there is no way around it that it has some political connotation, that is what photojournalist do as well.

But not to forget a section for studio photography and commercial photography. I mean that the structure of the site could be a bit more structured in that direction, then solely brands and showing off new toys.

I like the technical knowledge on this forum and there could also be a section for it. A place where people can ask questions about there new toys and (beginning) photographers can brush up their skills.

If a contribution is necessary, it shouldn't be to high on a yearly basis. I quit Fred Miranda because I wasn't willing to pay $ 59,-- for it anymore. Also things can heat up at FM with some hard boiled know it all better types around there. ! much prefer the atmosphere around here. I don't see many adds on the side bars of the site. May be something to explore more. I don't know if the community is big enough to get companys interested. I have no idea about that.

Well for the rest I want to say that I very much like this site and its contributers and the new all white look is a wonderfull change. Best wishes for you all.

 

[4season]

IMO, fees make sense for placing for-sale ads, but the fora, not so much, because users, not management, creates most of the value there. But with sale ads, most of the value is to the seller.

I wouldn’t mind a new default view showing all new posts since my last visit, and it might encourage me to view content which I would otherwise overlook because I do not use a specific brand or type of camera.

Performance of current software is good, and it works well for sharing photos.

 

[pegelli]

IMO, fees make sense for placing for-sale ads, but the fora, not so much, because users, not management, creates most of the value there. But with sale ads, most of the value is to the seller.

I wouldn’t mind a new default view showing all new posts since my last visit, and it might encourage me to view content which I would otherwise overlook because I do not use a specific brand or type of camera.

Performance of current software is good, and it works well for sharing photos.

+ 1 on your first and third point

Your second point already exists (or close to it). Click "What's new" on the menu at the top of the forum, then you'll see the last 10 threads with new messages, if you then click on "View more..." in the lower right corner you get all these in order of creation with a line indicating when your last visit was, so everything above that line is new. This line is not always reliable, but all threads you haven't visited yet are bold while the ones you've seen are normal font.