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Fuji 100MP sensor

Ed Hurst

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
I posed this question a while ago, when they were first launching a 100MP camera but it was probably too early then for anyone to have hard evidence/experience to answer it fully. With another thread suggesting a low-ish price for their new 100MP model, thought it might be a good moment to pose this again.

I would be very interested indeed to see test shots illustrating the high ISO noise and DR performance of the sensor in a Fuji 100MP camera. My 645Z does extremely well for astro shots, but if the noise were better on this body (or even just as good at a pixel level, making it better at any given print size, given the higher resolution), that would be most interesting.

Does anyone have test images, experience, etc. to answer this? And if you believe it's better, do you mean better at a given output size or better at pixel level?

All the best,
Ed
 
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Ed Hurst

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
Thanks, my friend. Would you mind elaborating a little on how OSPDAF affects DR?

If I am reading the chart you share properly, the GFX100 produces greater DR and less noise per pixel at a given ISO setting than the 645Z, despite having higher resolution. Do I have that right? Or is it less noise per unit area of the output?
 
P. Chong

P. Chong

Well-known member
Here is an image taken with the GFX 100 at ISO 51,200. Though this is a small image size, the image is relatively noise free.

timbre4.jpg

Vs at ISO 1600.

timbre2.jpg

The 51,200 was taken by accident, but after processing it, it looks ok. I think for small prints in magazines, it holds up reasonably well.
 
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S

SCHWARZZEIT

Member
You can read some fairly in-depth analysis on the GFX100's DR and the OSPDAF effects on it on Jim Kasson's blog. Here are some links:

On-sensor PDAF misconceptions - the last word

The new GFX 100 has on-sensor phase detection autofocus (OSPDAF, or, for the rest of this post, since we’re not talking about SLR’s, just PDAF). Bill Claff has already determined that the camera uses 18-row spacing. This link will show you to the evidence of that. The camera is not yet shipping...
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

GFX 100 EDR - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

GFX 100 read noise spectral analysis - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

GFX 100 EDR vs ISO - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

Fuji GFX 100 photon transfer curves - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

Fuji GFX 100 light-field pattern noise - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

Fuji GFX 100 dark-field pattern noise - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

Visual comparisons of Fuji GFX 100 14 and 16 bit raw precision - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

Visual comparisons of Fuji GFX 100 and GFX 50R shadow noise - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

Fujifilm GFX 50R and 100 shadow noise with nonlinear noise reduction - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

Averaging GFX 100 images - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

PDAF banding in GFX 100 in-camera JPEGs - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com

Particularly his noise comparison of the GFX100 and GFX50R (same sensor as on your 645Z) might be relevant to you. However, his comparison was made at ISO 100. For your use case a comparison at higher ISO would be more relevant. At higher ISO the GFX100 benefits from the dual gain technology of its more modern sensor. One way to test this is getting a dark frame raw file from the GFX100 at your preferred exposure settings. If you push this just as you push your 645Z files then you should get a fairly good idea on how that camera's noise behavior will affect your images.
 
S

SrMphoto

Well-known member
Ed Hurst said:
Thanks, my friend. Would you mind elaborating a little on how OSPDAF affects DR?

If I am reading the chart you share properly, the GFX100 produces greater DR and less noise per pixel at a given ISO setting than the 645Z, despite having higher resolution. Do I have that right? Or is it less noise per unit area of the output?
Click to expand...
Yes, you interpret the graph correctly.
Note that lower resolution sensors do not have higher PDR as the sensor size and technology matter more than pixel size.
GFX100 has some minor banding caused by OSPDAF, which is enough to reduce the maximum DR possible. This means that there is no benefit in shooting with 16-bit instead of 14-bit.
 
S

Satrycon

Well-known member
SrMphoto said:
GFX100 has some minor banding caused by OSPDAF, which is enough to reduce the maximum DR possible. This means that there is no benefit in shooting with 16-bit instead of 14-bit.
Click to expand...
it should be pointed out that those banding artifacts appear in quite extreme conditions "gave them each a 5-stop exposure boost and +100 setting for the shadows"
 
P

Paul2660

Well-known member
I have used the GFX100 extensively and use shadow push quite often, Never 5 stops however, but in my work, I have yet to see the banding that was mentioned in the early testing. In fact until I read this thread, I had forgotten about the issue totally.

This is with both LR and C1 on the raws.

Paul C
 
S

SrMphoto

Well-known member
Paul2660 said:
I have used the GFX100 extensively and use shadow push quite often, Never 5 stops however, but in my work, I have yet to see the banding that was mentioned in the early testing. In fact until I read this thread, I had forgotten about the issue totally.

This is with both LR and C1 on the raws.

Paul C
Click to expand...
I agree, I have never had issues with banding on GFX100 (or on Z 7). Since that banding theoretically makes 16-bit mode unnecessary, I always shoot in 14-bit mode.
 
Ed Hurst

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
Thank you so much, everyone. It's certainly food for thought. It would be good to see real world, side-by-side examples of the two bodies at high ISO, but I guess that's asking rather a lot! What you've all shared above is a great help and I'm very appreciative.
 
B

Boinger

Active member
Hi Ed,

I know the work you do, fwiw I tested the GFX 50r and the X1d. I found the X1d to be better in terms of long exposure noise.

I now have the gfx100 and I don't find the noise any worse so I would comfortable recommend it. I do think it is slightly better than the GFX 50r noise. This I want to say is due to the 50r using 80% infill microlenses. That I think is one of the reasons I always found the gfx 50r to be slightly darker than my x1d for the exact same exposure settings.

Here is the side by side from kason in case you missed it.

Visual comparisons of Fuji GFX 100 and GFX 50R shadow noise - the last word

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series;
blog.kasson.com blog.kasson.com
 
edouard

edouard

Member
docholliday said:
I'd rather see an H7D-150c!
Click to expand...
That would be nice for H users.
For V users 'would be nice to have a 53x40mm CFV-100c (or 150) back (quite unlikely) in addition to 44x33mm 100mpx X2D & CFV (quite likely) ;)
We don't know their sales numbers... maybe they are "focusing" on the X system... (but 'hope there will still be larger than 44x33 options with Hasselblad)
 
Abstraction

Abstraction

Well-known member
Ed Hurst said:
Thank you so much, everyone. It's certainly food for thought. It would be good to see real world, side-by-side examples of the two bodies at high ISO, but I guess that's asking rather a lot! What you've all shared above is a great help and I'm very appreciative.
Click to expand...
Hi Ed,

Here is the comparison of Fuji GFX100, Nikon Z7, Canon R5 and Pentax 645z at ISO 12,800
 
C

Curtis Hight

New member
docholliday said:
That would be great too, but only if they implemented the 203 & 205 style controls and metering along with a identical, proper folding WLF!
Click to expand...
I like the X1D body. Add an articulating screen and I would be pleased. (Presuming it was updated generally, such as with CFexpress and USB4. Most lovely would be the ability to accept networking cards like the Sekonic SpeedMaster L-858D). However, maybe your vision is surpassingly delightful; please tell me more! I had two 205 bodies so I am generally aware of what you are saying, but I am not sure of the specifics.
 
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