Hasselblad discontinues the H?

[jduncan]

Hi,
One of the more interesting parts of the X2D presentation is that Hasselblad did not include the H in the history of the Brand. I talked about that in this same forum back then.

Today I saw a new video by Peter Coulson here he talks openly about the discontinuation of the H6, not only that but he clearly stated that they will not be longer producing parts:

It's sad even if it may do business sense in the short run.
And short run is the only thing at Hasselblad this day, as exemplified by the decision to remove GPS from the X to cut costs, not pay one 4h to a programmer to port the x1d GPS module software to work on with the X2D, not have a remote trigger for the X2D or even an adapter for a classical cable release. In fewer words: defeatist attitude

I have zero reasons to believe Peter Coulson is inventing the stuff, or that he is mistaken.
He was in search of a replacement since a few months ago and the X2D did not cut it (he loves Hasselblad, but he has to earn a living).

I hope against all the writings in the wall that he just talk to the wrong representative and Hasselblad refutes his comments.

Best regards,

 

[P. Chong]

interesting philosophy by Hasselblad. They continue to support the V, but discontinue the H? Or could it be returning later…perhaps as support.

I also enjoy Coulson’s videos, and respect his work as photographer, so I also have no reason to doubt him. And in a reply to a question in the comments on this video, he said Hasselblad told him this info.

 

[jecxz]

I made this conclusion several years ago; my aging H3DII39s from 1987 are still alive and well, along with their Jackson Pollock sensor spots. Great system.

It was obvious Hasselblad was focusing all efforts on their new X1D (now X2D) and I have my suspicions (no proof) that all X2D parts are made at Fujifilm and assembled like Legos at Hasselblad. Prove me wrong. Like I said, H system was this way too and it is/was an incredible system!

So I went with GFX (half the cost)! Fuji's user interface is awful, the one thing Hasselblad does really well; however, I felt another investment in Hasselblad might not last long, not to mention service and support. (It proved to be the right decision after hearing Hasselblad closed their NJ service center and merged it into their parent company's office space somewhere out west).

Terminating the H system should not surprise anyone.

@P. Chong (Peter) encouraged me with the GFX (thank you Peter)! Now I use my GFX with HC lenses and the results are outstanding. I feel I have overcome Fuji's woefully deficient user interface as well.

 

[Maxx9photo]

If Hasselblad had the plan to continue the H system, the successor of H6 should already been in the market by now.

But, it’s a writing in the wall, X has more promising future with mirrorless taking over digital world.

Now, we need to see what’s Phase One has in the future as the sole full medium format system on the market.

 

[SrMphoto]

I have all three systems that he discussed, and I understand his enthusiasm for Leica SL cameras.

 

[hcubell]

I made this conclusion a couple of years ago; my aging H3DII39s from 1987 (two of them, since I travel to remote locations for a month at a time) are still alive and well, along with their Jackson Pollock sensor spots.

I knew Hasselblad was focusing all efforts on their new X1D (now X2D) and I have my suspicions (no proof) that all X2D parts are made at Fujifilm and assembled like Legos at Hasselblad. Prove me wrong. H system was this way too and it is/was an incredible system!

So I went with GFX (half the cost)! Fuji's user interface is awful, the one thing Hasselblad does really well; however, I felt another investment in Hasselblad might not last long, not to mention service and support. (It proved to be the right decision after hearing Hasselblad closed their NJ service center and merged it into their parent company's office space somewhere out west).

@P. Chong (Peter) encouraged me with the GFX (thank you Peter)! Now I use my GFX with HC lenses and the results are outstanding (I also have GFX lenses). Check out my Recent Work page on my website! I feel I have overcome Fuji's woefully deficient user interface as well.

Hi, Derek. Good to hear from you. The H series cameras were co-developed by Hasselblad and Fuji, and Fuji initially sold an H series body branded as a Fuji camera body, so it is quite likely that parts of the H series bodies were manufactured by Fuji for assembly in Sweden. We do know that Fuji manufactured the lenses. That is assuredly not the case with the X series bodies and lenses. If anyone other than Hasselblad in Sweden is manufacturing the components of the X series camera bodies, it is DJI in China. The original XCD lenses are made by Nittoh in Japan and the newer XCD lenses are supposedly made by Panasonic.
In short, Hasselblad and Fuji have parted ways, and each has developed its own cropped medium format system. Hasselblad no longer has a partner to co-develop a new H7 system, as it did with Fuji. Moreover, I consider it highly unlikely that anyone in the future will step up and sink the requisite capital investment to develop a new full frame MFD system. The handwriting has been on the wall for the H system and the Phase XF. Nobody should be surprised. Investing more capital into a successor to the H6 would be throwing good money after bad.
While there are certain moves made recently by Hasselblad that do concern me, I am quite optimistic today about Hasselblad’s future. As you know, I was an early adopter of the H3D 39, and it was a disaster for me in terms of reliability. After three years of untimely failures, I switched to a Phase One back. By comparison, the X2D has been exceptionally stable from the start. Having DJI as the parent company and intimately involved in developing the technology and manufacturing the parts for the X2D is a huge plus. DJI is in a league of its own in the drone market. Very well made products with state of the art technology that makes much of the tech in camera systems look like child’s play. Just look at Sony’s experience with the Airpeak. The Hasselblad employees in Sweden can stick to doing what they do best. Designing the camera body. Configuring the color pipeline for the files. Designing the User Interface. I don’t think anyone does those things as well as Hasselblad.

 

[jecxz]

Hi, Derek. Good to hear from you. The H series cameras were co-developed by Hasselblad and Fuji...

That is assuredly not the case with the X series bodies and lenses. If anyone other than Hasselblad in Sweden is manufacturing the components of the X series camera bodies, it is DJI in China. The original XCD lenses are made by Nittoh in Japan and the newer XCD lenses are supposedly made by Panasonic...

Hasselblad no longer has a partner to co-develop a new H7 system, as it did with Fuji. Moreover, I consider it highly unlikely that anyone in the future will step up and sink the requisite capital investment to develop a new full frame MFD system.

Hi Howard,

It is good to read your comments every now and then. I lurk more than post, leaving the wordsmithing to people with more time on their hands and more knowledgeable. Thank you for the info, I was incorrect about Fuji making parts for X2D. I agree with your other points.

Making enormous cash investments into expensive proprietary systems like Hasselblad, Leica or PhaseOne, for me at least, is unwise. I do not buy cameras or brands because they make me feel superior or because they look good; I buy because I believe the are good (which is why I purchased the H, great system!). I thought long and hard about the X1D before jumping to the GFX. It just made no sense, I feel the same about the X2D. The GFX was no picnic, but it worked out of the box, no hiccups, no glitches, no excuses, no concerns about the future, need I go on? I do not need to remind you of your nightmare, you mentioned above. By the way, you were not the only one. With that said, there is nothing wrong with Hasselblad, Leica, PhaseOne, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Etch a Sketch or whatever you use to create images.

Bottom line: No one should be shocked Hasselblad dropped H.

I hope you are well otherwise and I look forward to reading more from you!

Kind regards,
Derek

 

[buildbot]

The H series cameras were co-developed by Hasselblad and Fuji, and Fuji initially sold an H series body branded as a Fuji camera body, so it is quite likely that parts of the H series bodies were manufactured by Fuji for assembly in Sweden

Interestingly, the Viewfinder, lenses and film backs all say made in Japan, The digital backs in Denmark, and the bodies Sweden - Even the GX645AF ones. They all have fuji processors and electronics, probably indeed made in Japan - see the attached PDF (In Swedish sorry). It's sad to see the H line pass away indeed.

 

[ThdeDude]

that they will not be longer producing parts

This seems to be the critical decision. Not when no longer assembled but when parts are now longer manufactured (ordered to be manufactured).

 

[tcdeveau]

Not sure this would surprise anyone, assuming it’s true (I’m not saying it’s not).

the H-system was my first foray into digital medium format. I definitely have fond memories of it but moved on long ago. I suspect I’m not the only one….

they’ve got a great thing going with the X system and look forward to seeing where it goes.

 

[rmueller]

The H system was my start into digital back in 2007, H3D served me well for ten years, upgraded to H6D in 2017, hope the camera will last for many more years to come. If it dies, at least the lenses will be of use on the X system. Quite honestly, I do like the rendering of H glass more than of X glass but maybe this is because I got used to it over the years.

The writing was on the wall, it just doesn't seem to make sense commercially. But heck, I love working with the H.

Regards, Ralf

 

[steveash]

The H system has been out of stock everywhere for a while but it’s hard to imagine them being unable to fix them. I got an HC lens fixed in Gothenburg just a couple of weeks ago so perhaps they just have limited quantities of certain parts.

The H system still offers one thing no other camera maker does: The ability to tilt and shift lenses with the HTS and still get full digital corrections. I moved to the X1D because it’s more portable and easier on the wallet but it doesn’t completely replace the H6D.

 

[TechTalk]

Interestingly, the Viewfinder, lenses and film backs all say made in Japan, The digital backs in Denmark, and the bodies Sweden - Even the GX645AF ones. They all have fuji processors and electronics, probably indeed made in Japan - see the attached PDF (In Swedish sorry). It's sad to see the H line pass away indeed.

Thanks for attaching the PDF in Swedish regarding Hasselblad's use of multiple Fujitsu processors in the H1. One correction should be noted, Fujitsu and Fujifilm are two entirely different companies. Hasselblad used Fujitsu processors and electronics, NOT "Fuji processors and electronics".

To add some additional information to the PDF you provided, Hasselblad's technology development partner in the design of the electronics of the H1 was Teleca Systems AB in Sweden and not Fuji. www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2002/09/24/Teleca Partner, Hasselblad, in Development of New Camera System...

MALMO, Sweden, Sept. 24, 2002 (PRIMEZONE) -- Victor Hasselblad AB has contracted Teleca (Stockholm:TELCb) for the development of a new camera system. The assignment involved electronics design and the development of embedded software as well as integration and testing.

The new camera system, called the H-system, will further strengthen Hasselblad's position as a leading supplier of cameras for professionals. It uses the picture format 645 and incorporates modern camera technology such as auto focus, automatic exposure and motor operated functions. The new camera addresses professional photographers, within film and digital photography, where the need for fast handheld photography dominates, for example within the fashion industry, wedding photography, sports and news. Hasselblad also expects huge interest from advanced amateur photographers.

For compatibility with future products, the H-System is built modularly. The new camera system contains a completely new platform concerning control and communication built on a standard electrical interface, databus communication (I2C) and a programmable user interface similar the one used in mobile telephones...

With a little help from a friend and Google Translate, I've converted the PDF in Swedish to a PDF in English for anyone interested in a behind the scenes peek into collaborative product development. In this case, the collaboration is Hasselblad leading development of their new camera with contracted partners like Fujitsu and Teleca...

 

[TechTalk]

The H series cameras were co-developed by Hasselblad and Fuji, and Fuji initially sold an H series body branded as a Fuji camera body, so it is quite likely that parts of the H series bodies were manufactured by Fuji for assembly in Sweden.

The Hasselblad H-system was developed by Hasselblad who contracted a variety of engineering partners and component suppliers. Fuji was contracted for optical component manufacturing and collaboration with Hasselblad's optical engineers in lens and viewfinder design. Hasselblad worked with contractors and suppliers such as Fujitsu (which is unrelated to Fujifilm) in Japan and Teleca in Sweden, among others, for development and supply of electronic components as noted above. Minolta supplied the excellent focusing screens. I'm sure there were parts from a variety of sources due to the complexity of the cameras. Hasselblad manufactures their own shutters, but the components still need to be sourced from specialty suppliers.

Hasselblad licensed Fuji to sell a co-branded version of their H1 in Japan only and gave Fujinon (which is a division of Fujifilm) the contract for lens and viewfinder manufacturing. Fuji also manufactured the roll film magazines which were able to read barcodes on Fuji film products for automatic ISO setting.

We do know that Fuji manufactured the lenses. That is assuredly not the case with the X series bodies and lenses. If anyone other than Hasselblad in Sweden is manufacturing the components of the X series camera bodies, it is DJI in China.

Hasselblad uses components made primarily in Europe and Asia from a variety of manufacturers according to their financial filings. I would expect that some of those are from DJI.

In short, Hasselblad and Fuji have parted ways, and each has developed its own cropped medium format system. Hasselblad no longer has a partner to co-develop a new H7 system, as it did with Fuji. Moreover, I consider it highly unlikely that anyone in the future will step up and sink the requisite capital investment to develop a new full frame MFD system. The handwriting has been on the wall for the H system and the Phase XF. Nobody should be surprised. Investing more capital into a successor to the H6 would be throwing good money after bad.

I don't know that Hasselblad and Fujinon have parted ways. Even after Hasselblad and Fuji introduced competing mirrorless medium format models in 2016, Fujinon continued manufacturing H-series lenses and viewfinders. If, and it's a big if, Hasselblad were to develop anything new in the H-system; they could work with other partners to do so. But, it would be a surprise to see much of anything new in DSLR camera systems with the possible exception of Pentax, who appears to have planted their flag in that niche. The long-term survival of digital backs may eventually depend on cameras like the 907X 50C being further developed.

What's clear is that every other DSLR camera system is either dead or on life support as consumer demand has rapidly and dramatically shifted to smaller, lighter, and less costly mirrorless cameras. DSLR cameras are just too optically and mechanically complex to compete with mirrorless on price, size, or weight effectively.

While there are certain moves made recently by Hasselblad that do concern me, I am quite optimistic today about Hasselblad’s future. As you know, I was an early adopter of the H3D 39, and it was a disaster for me in terms of reliability. After three years of untimely failures, I switched to a Phase One back. By comparison, the X2D has been exceptionally stable from the start. Having DJI as the parent company and intimately involved in developing the technology and manufacturing the parts for the X2D is a huge plus. DJI is in a league of its own in the drone market. Very well made products with state of the art technology that makes much of the tech in camera systems look like child’s play. Just look at Sony’s experience with the Airpeak. The Hasselblad employees in Sweden can stick to doing what they do best. Designing the camera body. Configuring the color pipeline for the files. Designing the User Interface. I don’t think anyone does those things as well as Hasselblad.

I agree with you regarding Hasselblad's future, core strengths, and DJI's connection enabling their continued success. I always enjoy reading your posts. I hope you're doing well and wish you the best as always.

 

[ThdeDude]

DSLR cameras are just too optically and mechanically complex to compete with mirrorless on price, size, or weight effectively.

The market seems to agree.

Will be interesting to see how (if?) PhaseOne will respond to these changing circumstances.

Once a 645 sized sensor with "global" shutter (or negligible "rolling shutter") becomes available, will P1 go the mirrorless, no mechanical shutter route with a new lens line (optimized for 200MP plus sensor)?

 

[P. Chong]

The market seems to agree.

Will be interesting to see how (if?) PhaseOne will respond to these changing circumstances.

Once a 645 sized sensor with "global" shutter (or negligible "rolling shutter") becomes available, will P1 go the mirrorless, no mechanical shutter route with a new lens line (optimized for 200MP plus sensor)?

P1 has already gone mirrorless with the XT.

 

[ThdeDude]

P1 has already gone mirrorless with the XT.

Yes, you are correct. But if people talk about P1 they generally mean the XF, the XT is a rather specialized technical camera. I should have been clearer about that.

 

[Doc Steel]

I am always very skeptical and fundamentally cautious when someone - and with all due respect, Mr. Poulson is just someone - and not someone responsible for the respective company reports about changes, innovations or even future prospects and, on top of that, doesn't think it's worth naming his sources .
So a message like this is meaningless for me. And when Mr. Poulson then spends a few minutes reporting why he prefers to take photos with a Leica.... to be honest, that's not only boring, but also completely uninteresting for us.
What do I care about the likes of a stranger?
These are news that one reads or hears once, simply to know how things are going, but they are not useful for the path of one's own development.

 

[wattsy]

What do I care about the likes of a stranger?

That's fair enough but I don't think you have to be an insider or someone particularly well informed to see that the H system is moribund and unlikely to be developed further. It's a pity because the H system provides things that the X system doesn't (a bigger chip for one thing) but there's been a paradigm shift to mirrorless cameras during the last 10 years and Hasselblad presumably wants to concentrate on its mirrorless system. Of course, Hasselblad could develop a mirrorless H body but I guess they don't see it as being economically worthwhile. I suspect the existence of the XH Converter 0.8 suggests Hasselblad think that those who are heavily invested in the H system will have to be satisfied with the X2D (and successor X cameras) going forward.

 

[bab]

DOC you didn't watch Peters video or during the video your attention was diverted, I recall Peter saying he wouldn't use the X2D in studio obviously because of the slower AF among many other issues, Peter also mentions he has two H6D's and more than any other camera he prefers to shoot the H6d in studio with flash and for good reasons.

Yes the H6D 100c is still a viable system just not for in studio flash images but many other uses and yes it was dropped but not this year H6D100c was dropped in 2018 as evident by no further improvements or by releasing any new features or lenses.

Peter has many interesting comments and his method to achieve his look and his methods are interesting to many.

On to the H6D100c it only has one focusing fault the fact it grabs the eyelashes instead of the pupil.
It's heavy and hard to backpack but the results are worth the effort.
ISO 800 before the new noise reduction AI was the top.
The highlight fall off still can't be beat by any current camera sensor. (X2D is abrupt)
The fact you don't need black frame is a big positive.

Most of the employees at Hasselblad were not aware of the future for either Hasselblad or any of its products in fact they were clueless! I would think when a company has it decision's made by investment board of directors with no first hand daily activities its always goes that way. Who knows what contracts were signed with paragraphs of road blocks just to keep the company alive.

Within the line of lenses the Orange square are very hard to come by for a price close to the previously experienced HC lens capable of only 1/800 sec shutters this tells me they are still in heavy use. Why not more than three stops of control giving one the ability to use almost any power flash (depending on distance to subject) this alone is worth the price of admission for serious outdoor portraits.

One last comment the H6D 100c is one of the best cameras for static subjects ant the files are incredible to say the least.