It is Finally Here, 907x 100c

[diggles]

So, no flash with ES? WTF??

that's true with es on any digital back

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Colours is a borad topic and each manufacturer has ample options to control the final result starting with the:

+ glass formulation of its optics
+ thickness and type of sensor cover glass
+ bayer filter tweaks
+ image processing on the SoC before saving
+ post in raw conversion

Leica S looks different than the other Leica cameras and Hassy looks also very different as do the IQ4 series backs. My understanding is also that Sony sells the chip in a base package leaving it open whether the camera manufacturer changes the filter on top or the sensor cover glass. That's for example important with the wide-angles in the Leica M world.

***

+ S3 has its own look, based on the fact that Leica commissioned this sensor specifically for the camera with its own tweaks to the color filter array, namely the rendering of red wavelengths
+ The S optics also take into consideration the whole image quality chain and the S100 was for example specifically also formulated to work well with skin colours (again red channel)
+ The S3 processor does its own interpretation before

+ Hasselblad implemented a colour lookup table which is inspired by film and which is normalized beforehand on a per sensor basis with a gain file per camera; there are multiple LUTs which are intepolated based on Kelvin (two illiuminants, essentially)

+ All Sony sensors I have - IQ4 and M11 produce a slight magenta cast – I don't like it too much

In my experience, the S3 produces the most analogue base file and I suspect it also includes a tweak to some of the primary colours in the way they are processed by the S3's chip.

For repro my understanding is that with Phase backs its best to create your own profiels to have accurate colour based on your setup and / or alternatively use the Fuji in RGB pixel shift mode which should have no colour cast. At least that's what I understand.

I've tried the Hassy files in Phocus and it reminded me a lot about the S and film, but I found the Phocus software inferior compared to C1.

 

[P. Chong]

I wonder if it is possible to just buy the CFV 100c back without the 907. For those who already have the 907/CFV II 50C, this can mean a bit less money.

 

[P. Chong]

In my experience Hasselblad files look best through Phocus. Better than Lr or ACR. Esp the colours and the lens correction for H branded lenses (HC, HCD, CZ V or XCD). Phocus iPad works very nicely too, and is stable.

.

I've tried the Hassy files in Phocus and it reminded me a lot about the S and film, but I found the Phocus software inferior compared to C1.

 

[Ben730]

I'd guess that Phase One would be more accurate, but I'd no more want accurate color than I'd want a music performance following the score exactly. It is the artists job to make a performance - or a photograph - captivating.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I prefer real colors as a starting point. In Capture One, I start every edit with a linear profile. I've never used the Fuji color profiles in C1 for example, it's like canned food to me.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Well I think its amazing for the price. I can't get over the fact that its 8k. I think combined with the current gen of TS lenses like the Nikon 19 etc. it will make a compelling "entry package."

So basically the new back is the entry replacement to P1 backs and the TS lenses from CaNikon are the new "cheap" Rodie HR replacements.

You can control TS with Cambo, Alpa FPS and the new upcoming Pico.

I guess that's the answer of the manufacturers to slow demand at the top level, which makes sense. Alpa only does Canon, but Cambo and Arca will do Nikon, I think.

I saw some samples of the 19TS from Nikon on the Cambo and it looks very good indeed.

 

[Phase V]

that's true with es on any digital back

Certainly not.

Electronic Shutter Flash Sync on Phase One IQ3 100 & IQ4 Series Digital Backs - Capture Integration

Could be you forgot your sync cable, could be you have a broken cable, could be your Copal shutter is failing or has failed… there are some circumstances where your normal workflow could be compromised and you’ll need to make use of the built in Electronic Shutter (ES) on your IQ3-100 or...

www.captureintegration.com

 

[hcubell]

Frame averaging is one of the simplest computations in all of photo processing. You need one buffer, and then each exposure requires only two multiplications and one addition per pixel. And you don't even have to know how many frames you will end up taking. I'm amazed that it isn't more common - unless it's an IP issue.

Is the issue the amount of processing "power" required in the camera to implement it?

 

[Digitalcameraman]

Agreed we all wish Capture One supported the Hasselblad camera and files. But we do not see that happening anytime soon/

H lenses are compatible. Please see our foot notes about the use of those in the AF mode, it requires that your firmware of that lens to be at least 18.xxxx

Please note that the HC/HCD Lens must have firmware 18.0.0 or later. Lenses with older firmware have hardware that cannot be updated with this firmware. They can only be used with manual focus.

The XH Lens Adapter can be used to mount an HC or HCD Lens onto an X System or 907X camera. The XH Lens Adapter widens your lens choices to include all 12 H System HC/HCD Lenses and Accessories including a macro converter and 3 extension tubes. The HC/HCD Lens range includes a 24mm wide angle, 300mm telephoto and a 100mm f/2.2 delivering an ultra-thin depth of field and a beautifully smooth bokeh.

Hasselblad XH Lens Adapter

Hasselblad H Lens to X-Mount Camera Maintains Electronic Communication Leaf Shutter Support Use any of your current H system (HC & HCD) lenses on a Hasselblad X system camera by picking up this dedicated XH Lens Adapter. It maintains electronic communication between the lens and camera, enabling...

digitalback.com

Tethering is very stable with Hasselblad Focus. It has been a staple in the museum and archivist world for years with multi shot systems and Hasselblad H backs. You can also tether to an Ipad as well.

Hope this answers some of your questions Ben.

Chris Snipes
Capture Integration
Medium Format Experts

This new back seems to be wonderful. I have been waiting a long time for a back illuminated "cropped MF" sensor.
The 32 HR with IQ3 100 is too bulky for me, so I mostly use my IQ1 50 with the 23 HR.

The only hurdle is compatibility with Capture One.
The software has become more important for my work than the camera.
Are the H series lenses compatible (AF + shutter)?
Is tethering stable with Hasselblad?

 

[Digitalcameraman]

We have asked Hasselblad about this for years when the 907x was released. They have told us they will never sell that 907x with just the body or just the 907x part to host the AF lenses. It is kind of like the razor concept, give them the handle and they will buy the blade. Same goes when we are accepting trade in of 907x/50c towards 907x/100c. We have to trade the kit of those two parts and break that up because it is the only way it can ship from the manufacture.

I wonder if it is possible to just buy the CFV 100c back without the 907. For those who already have the 907/CFV II 50C, this can mean a bit less money.

 

[Digitalcameraman]

I agree with this as well. When you open a file in Capture One, it is intelligent so it picks and applies an ICC Color profile designed for that specific camera. Think of it as a recipe to create the color, contrast and density of the file.

When we open a file in Focus, the same, it knows what camera shot the image and applies all ICC Color profile and any lens profiles to correct for distortions ect. We like to call it the secret sauce.

When you open a file in LR/ACR it has the ability to apply a ICC camera profile, if you even have one you got some where. You can also apply those to each file in LR but you have to come up with that profile. I have found that using many different profiling software Xrite or Best Color, I cannot make an ICC profile as good as Capture one or Hasselblad. They have tweaked these to get the most accurate and pleasing color so for me that the best starting point.

In my experience Hasselblad files look best through Phocus. Better than Lr or ACR. Esp the colours and the lens correction for H branded lenses (HC, HCD, CZ V or XCD). Phocus iPad works very nicely too, and is stable.

 

[Ben730]

Agreed we all wish Capture One supported the Hasselblad camera and files. But we do not see that happening anytime soon/

H lenses are compatible. Please see our foot notes about the use of those in the AF mode, it requires that your firmware of that lens to be at least 18.xxxx

Please note that the HC/HCD Lens must have firmware 18.0.0 or later. Lenses with older firmware have hardware that cannot be updated with this firmware. They can only be used with manual focus.

The XH Lens Adapter can be used to mount an HC or HCD Lens onto an X System or 907X camera. The XH Lens Adapter widens your lens choices to include all 12 H System HC/HCD Lenses and Accessories including a macro converter and 3 extension tubes. The HC/HCD Lens range includes a 24mm wide angle, 300mm telephoto and a 100mm f/2.2 delivering an ultra-thin depth of field and a beautifully smooth bokeh.

Hasselblad XH Lens Adapter

Hasselblad H Lens to X-Mount Camera Maintains Electronic Communication Leaf Shutter Support Use any of your current H system (HC & HCD) lenses on a Hasselblad X system camera by picking up this dedicated XH Lens Adapter. It maintains electronic communication between the lens and camera, enabling...

digitalback.com

Tethering is very stable with Hasselblad Focus. It has been a staple in the museum and archivist world for years with multi shot systems and Hasselblad H backs. You can also tether to an Ipad as well.

Hope this answers some of your questions Ben.

Chris Snipes
Capture Integration
Medium Format Experts

Chris,
thank you very much for these precise answers.
I wish we had a Hasselblad seller in Switzerland who had your expertise...
Regards,

 

[MGrayson]

Is the issue the amount of processing "power" required in the camera to implement it?

I think creating a jpeg is an order of magnitude or two more difficult, as it requires demosaicing. Frame averaging is massively parallel, since each pixel has its own computation that doesn't depend on its neighbors. I don't know what numerical tools ar built in to the cameras processor, but if there are *any* full image numerical routines, and there must be for LCD/EVF display, then frame averaging has to be trivial (I've written it - it takes one line of code). Granted, that's the kind of statement that real coders view as a kiss of death, so I'm hesitant to be 100% certain. I'd love to talk with someone who actually does the low-level coding on any digital camera.

 

[MGrayson]

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I prefer real colors as a starting point. In Capture One, I start every edit with a linear profile. I've never used the Fuji color profiles in C1 for example, it's like canned food to me.

Oh, fair enough. I admire your approach, but have always been too lazy to truly develop my vision of the image.

 

[hcubell]

Same here, if it were for capture one compatibility, I would have ordered one yesterday.

I'm hoping to try one out with extensive shooting for a day, and put phocus through pace, see how I get on with it.

Or figure out a workflow to combine phocus and capture one, and see how the results compare.

As you said, the sensor would be wonderful, especially for sk lenses without colour cast.

Hasselblad has coordinated very closely with Adobe on the use of LR/ACR for the Hasselblad X series cameras. In the experience of many, you give up VERY little, if anything, in using LR/ACR rather than Phocus to process the Hasselblad files from the standpoint of color and tonal rendering. Just use the Camera Standard Profile. The lens adjustments in Phocus are supposed to be more comprehensive, but I have never noticed that in practice.

 

[P. Chong]

on ACR, the Hasselblad HC and HCD lenses on profile under Optics. Phocus does a better job. I understand Hb actually creates a large lookup for correction of each lens based on distance at focus and aperture. And to me, there are small, but significant differences. More on some lenses than others.

 

[f8orbust]

I wish there was an official HB trade in / trade up program - or at least that dealers outside the US would offer something similar to what CI is doing.

 

[diggles]

Certainly not.

Electronic Shutter Flash Sync on Phase One IQ3 100 & IQ4 Series Digital Backs - Capture Integration

Could be you forgot your sync cable, could be you have a broken cable, could be your Copal shutter is failing or has failed… there are some circumstances where your normal workflow could be compromised and you’ll need to make use of the built in Electronic Shutter (ES) on your IQ3-100 or...

www.captureintegration.com

Hmm... Thanks for pointing this out. I'm a bit unclear about the process. It seems like when the electronic shutter setting is selected, some Phase backs still send a signal to activate the flash. So, if you use the shutter speeds mentioned in the article you can sync your flash? Does flash duration have to be considered? What is an example of how you use it?

Thanks!

 

[cunim]

Certainly not.

Electronic Shutter Flash Sync on Phase One IQ3 100 & IQ4 Series Digital Backs - Capture Integration

Could be you forgot your sync cable, could be you have a broken cable, could be your Copal shutter is failing or has failed… there are some circumstances where your normal workflow could be compromised and you’ll need to make use of the built in Electronic Shutter (ES) on your IQ3-100 or...

www.captureintegration.com

I wasn't aware that CI had actually documented this. It was my impression that it isn't supposed to work and I have no clue why it does, but I routinely use flash with ES on the IQ4. There is some flexibility around the times that Brad gives (e.g. sometimes a half second will work) but that doesn't matter in most cases. If it works with the IQ, I'll bet someone just needs to figure out the exposure timing on the 907. Note, this type of flash has limited application in that any ambient light will affect the long exposure.

By the way, I get the feeling that many of us ignore the most important aspect of frame averaging. It is not a smoothing function. Sure, it can be used to make creamy waterfalls but that is incidental. After all, a very small subset of photographers make smooth water or light streak shots. In contrast, everyone can benefit from frame averaging. It is a noise reduction technique. If I am on a tripod and dealing with static subjects, I want frame averaging. It makes a huge difference to pixel granularity (your images are less noisy) and it greatly enhances your ability to retrieve shadow detail. That is why I have so much trouble understanding the clumsy way averaging is implemented on the few cameras that offer it. It should be a simple thing you turn on and off, not a special mode of operation.

 

[diggles]

I agree with this as well. When you open a file in Capture One, it is intelligent so it picks and applies an ICC Color profile designed for that specific camera. Think of it as a recipe to create the color, contrast and density of the file.

For me, lens corrections and LCC are the only reason I use C1.

Phocus LCC Scene Calibration works well, but does it have a lens corrections panel that allows you to enter movement values like C1 does?